Didn't Matthew have one of these, in Cyprus or Malta

In writing there are no further tools that are being developed to enhance/change writing. The quill becomes the typewriter etc. The end result will be the same regardless of those tools. With games though the likes of 3d graphics,motion control and VR etc fundamentally change what is possible for a player to experience.
So for me examples of revolutionary games are Mario 64,Wii Sports and Guitar Hero.


Speaking as a level 20 Destiny Hunter, how exactly is it revolutionary? (Genuine question, I may not have played enough to know).

Well that's kinda bullshit superfly, the medium informs the style which becomes the convention. Printing was expensive so words were measured, valuable. Written records would be clipped, succinct and often restricted to matters of law, god and ownership, not frivolities like journals or entertainment.

As the printing press started to democratise that process, people were allowed greater freedom to tell more detail. We assume that pre industrial revolution Britons spoke in the same clipped way we see in books. I'd wager that they didn't. The Finnish songs collected by Lonnrot kinda show this because because he collected the spoken word of those people and we see lots of alliteration and repetition

Skip to today where everyone is a content creator, where twitter asks us to condense our thoughts to 140 characters, where clixkbait asks us to sensationalise each post we make to gain views and therefore approval, I guarantee if we read each Nobel Literary prize winner in chronological order we'd see the fashions reflected in the writing style

superflyninja wrote:

Speaking as a level 20 Destiny Hunter, how exactly is it revolutionary? (Genuine question, I may not have played enough to know).

The raids are unlike any other gameplay experience I've had. This may or may not fit someone's personal definition of revolutionary.

cockbeard wrote:

Well that's kinda bullshit superfly, the medium informs the style which becomes the convention. Printing was expensive so words were measured, valuable. Written records would be clipped, succinct and often restricted to matters of law, god and ownership, not frivolities like journals or entertainment.

As the printing press started to democratise that process, people were allowed greater freedom to tell more detail. We assume that pre industrial revolution Britons spoke in the same clipped way we see in books. I'd wager that they didn't. The Finnish songs collected by Lonnrot kinda show this because because he collected the spoken word of those people and we see lots of alliteration and repetition

Skip to today where everyone is a content creator, where twitter asks us to condense our thoughts to 140 characters, where clixkbait asks us to sensationalise each post we make to gain views and therefore approval, I guarantee if we read each Nobel Literary prize winner in chronological order we'd see the fashions reflected in the writing style

that is a good point.but i wasnt talking sbout writing styles or twitter.ust the basic tools of writing.words and paper.adding images allowed for comics etc.it may havr bern a poor snslogy by me! but i stand by wot i done sed.bout new tech n dat.
fucking shit typing on this win8 pad.
@yossarian ah, i have not raided yet.

VR will be out soon.

I heard a report not long ago that e publishing has in turn caused an increase in physical book sales.

Yossarian wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Speaking as a level 20 Destiny Hunter, how exactly is it revolutionary? (Genuine question, I may not have played enough to know).

The raids are unlike any other gameplay experience I've had. This may or may not fit someone's personal definition of revolutionary.

Have you played WoW before, or any other MMO for that matter?

God forbid I get into it again, but the fact that Destiny is a first person shooter changes everything regarding the raids. Have you raided in Destiny Chump?

For me, it's about the universe Bungie have created, the raids, the planets, the weapons, the armour, the grimoire, the currencies, the characters, the sub reddit, the friendly community, the amazing gameplay, the rewards. 

It's about how accessible everything is, and how easy it is to get together with friends and go adventuring. It's all done seamlessly. It's the little things; like being able to access menu screens at all times to tinker with your build, patrolling a planet and having a friend or two join you and say hi, and going off together to do one of the many, many quests, it's the last ditch attempt at a raid boss that comes good, and the waves of relief and satisfaction afterwards.

All of those things on their own are fine, but added up together in the one package, that's something else entirely.

No console game developer has managed to bring all those elements together and make it work so well, whilst simultaneously improving their game constantly after feedback from fans like Bungie have with Destiny.

One year later, it's a different game to what it was at release. That, to me, is a good thing, not bad. We used to slate devs for releasing there games and just forgetting them, never patching problems and bugs, so you put that game on a year later and it's the exact same.

Destiny has evolved over the past year, and anyone who plays the game has been along for the ride, and it really has been exciting. 

I am primarily a console gamer. Destiny is certainly revolutionary for me.

Has anyone mentioned Mario Maker yet?

@chump and @chalis

It feels akin to those "nintendo invented analogue sticks" debates.

From my personal experience, Elastomania was the first game I played that had user-made levels. Probably a few before then, but I can't remember offhand which had the first integrated user-made level publishing, rating and charts - maybe LittleBigPlanet? There was probably one before that though.

@b0ris Nintendo giving you the ability to create Mario levels is a pretty big deal really. They keep such a tight reign on things so to hand over the ability to players, give them the ability to upload and share those creations is actually a pretty big deal.

I mean sure, they are not the first to make a game where people can create custom content and let people upload it. But it's the way it's been done.

stonechalice wrote:

djchump wrote:

Chalice - have you played Wow, or any other MMO before?

Yes. I've played WoW. For me, it was hard to get into. As I say, I'm not a PC gamer really, but I have a PC, and it could run WoW, but not at optimum and that put me off straight away. Also, I wasn't mad keen on the whole fantasy, cutesy aesthetic of the game, and the gameplay itself was rather clunky and average, it felt a little shallow, and I didn't have a headset, or anyone I knew to play with. I understand where Destiny's roots are, but I refer you to my post above as to why, for consoles, Destiny is a big deal.

Cool.

I mean, for sure, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote in your long post - that Destiny is: revolutionary for consoles, revolutionary for you personally, Yoss finds it revolutionary for FPSes etc etc. - but my only point is, these are all "revolutionary when qualified to a smaller scope"; "revolutionary" but only in some aspect or successful synthesis.
I personally don't consider it revolutionary in and of itself, as anyone who got into WoW raids would have been saying much the same about the social gaming, the lore, the characters, the raid coordination etc etc. over 10 years ago. And even that is synthesis and scale - you have to go all the way back to MUD for the real revolutionary gameplay aspect.

Really, the only thing I don't agree with you about is:

stonechalice wrote:

One year later, it's a different game to what it was at release. That, to me, is a good thing, not bad. We used to slate devs for releasing there games and just forgetting them, never patching problems and bugs, so you put that game on a year later and it's the exact same.

I'd agree with that if they'd done it via free updates, but they didn't, they were paid - so it's not like "they fixed the issues", they sold the fixes, and that's a rather different beast and not one that I will laud.

djchump wrote:

Speaking as a level 20 Destiny Hunter, how exactly is it revolutionary? (Genuine question, I may not have played enough to know).

The raids are unlike any other gameplay experience I've had. This may or may not fit someone's personal definition of revolutionary.

Have you played WoW before, or any other MMO for that matter?

Nope. In fact Im playing Destiny so far as a single player game pretty much. Though the Strike I did with randomers was great. Having other people there was super cool. 

Just about the book thing. What I was trying to get at was that books are words on a page. There are natural limits. Im not concerned with style or amount of writing or democracy blah blah. Whereas with games technology enables new genres and such. So for me its the technology that drives the revolutions in the software.
Though there are same games that I think are revolutions without hardware assistance. Portal for example. Brought puzzles to the FPS. Yes I may have missed some earlier example but hopefully the bones of what I'm saying is clear.