Revolutions in Videogames (Parrot or Magpie) - The Bear and Badger

Roujin

One revolution for me at least is the ability to record and upload footage and stream direct from the console.

Yossarian

I wasn't trying to derail it. I gave my personal, subjective opinion, you took issue with it.

Tempy

@Roujin It is an interesting development for sure, but I wonder how much again its a poor shadow of eSports and streaming in general.

Edit: FML, about to leave for a 4 hour train jounrey, and miss out on this crazy rollercoaster of a discussion

djchump

djchump wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

I think revolutions in videogames is a daft topic to be discussing.

Then stop trying to discuss it, and stop derailing the conversation for people that wanted to? I mean, to get back to what Boris wanted to discuss, it's specifically about this console generation - i.e. "what has the increased power of this console generation been utilised for that we haven't seen before?"

Yossarian wrote:

I wasn't trying to derail it. I gave my personal, sunbjective opinion, you took issue with it.

I didn't say you were trying to derail it - I said that in trying to tell people why you think the premise of the thread is bullshit, you (and I) have been derailing it. If you think it's a daft topic, walk away instead of continually banging on about what a daft topic you think it is.

djchump

Roujin wrote:

One revolution for me at least is the ability to record and upload footage and stream direct from the console.

Aye - as I think Sparky pointed out, one obvious addition to this generation of console gaming is the ability for every console to record and upload video clips and direct stream to Twitch etc.
That's pretty revolutionary (for console gaming). Obvs existed prior in PC and via hardware recording devices etc., but having it on tap and having extras such as a remote player being able to play your game on your console is a pretty big jump.

Yossarian

djchump wrote:

I didn't say you were trying to derail it - I said that in trying to tell people why you think the premise of the thread is bullshit, you (and I) have been derailing it. If you think it's a daft topic, walk away instead of continually banging on about what a daft topic you think it is.

I did qualify that statement, about two posts later:

Yossarian wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

I think revolutions in videogames is a daft topic to be discussing.

Or at least a daft topic to have any pretence to objectivity toward.

Roujin

I would say that although possible on PC before now, recording gameplay is not on the same level of integration as on the new consoles where its a pretty seamless one touch record style system working right out the box.

Dark Soldier

I'd bung Half Life in here for the way it brought proper narrative and lack of cut-scenes etc to the fore. HL2 was more groundbreaking but the original oh my.

monkey

If revolution can be defined I think it's more to do with impact than originality. Nothing is original, you just get new mixtures of things. Games are iterative so things like gears can have a big impact because of how well they executed cover mechanics but it wasn't anything new as such. It was just well done, and that's probably another important component. Something with an industry shaping impact that is a new, different combination of what has come before.

That's no help to the Destiny conundrum. Tying MMO tropes to good FPS mechanics and selling it to Jimmy CodPlayer meets my criteria and could well see a load of other devs follow suit to try and lock players in to their game for longer. Alternatively, you could argue that the MMO stuff was so revolutionary in the first place that even the guys who made Halo are using them now. There's no answer. Destroy the thread.

Djornson

Yossarian wrote:

I think revolutions in videogames is a daft topic to be discussing.

Get out then

(I should too. i said the same thing. Can't resist.)

Diluted Dante

djchump wrote:

Roujin wrote:

One revolution for me at least is the ability to record and upload footage and stream direct from the console.

Aye - as I think Sparky pointed out, one obvious addition to this generation of console gaming is the ability for every console to record and upload video clips and direct stream to Twitch etc. That's pretty revolutionary (for console gaming). Obvs existed prior in PC and via hardware recording devices etc., but having it on tap and having extras such as a remote player being able to play your game on your console is a pretty big jump.

It's a crying shame that Halo's Theatre mode wasn't picked up by more games. COD had (Still has?) one, is it on the same level as Halo?

I love the record and streaming function, but looking at the Halo montages, ther ability to swivel the camera around was what made it. What we have now is a step back. Plus it recorded the entire level/match and game you a list of the most recent 25 I think to look back at.

Dark Soldier

Streaming is a step back?

Diluted Dante

In terms of what it leaves you with. So I can record, but only for a limited time. So to get round that I can stream and save that. But all I have is the game from the POV I played.

Theater mode gave you complete control over the camera. I could follow someone else, or go completely free cam.

In terms of live streaming, yeah, totally new, but I was thinking about it in terms of constructing a video later. Look at the Halol montages and you'll see what I mean.

Dark Soldier

But montages, bar the odd couple (those on here by badgers having a certain sentimental value helps) are absolute shite. I'd rather a Twitch stream of actual gameplay then someone creating a n0sc0p3 masterpiece or whatevs, it sells the game way more.

I_R

I think theatre mode was something that relied on MS and was only available to their own studios. Forza was the only other game that I remember having it. Magic of the cloud probably.

Definitely better, but it took work and lacked the immediacy of the current solution.

Diluted Dante

Red vs Blue and the other Machinima stuff came out of it. And within a community it certainly keeps people active. Plenty of times people would post a clip, or even an entire game for people to watch. Loads of YouTubers made incredibly popular montages too.

It's perfectly possible for them to co-exist though.

Dark Soldier

Swings and roundabouts really, as you say market for both.

Yossarian

Dark Soldier wrote:

But montages, bar the odd couple (those on here by badgers having a certain sentimental value helps) are absolute shite. I'd rather a Twitch stream of actual gameplay then someone creating a n0sc0p3 masterpiece or whatevs, it sells the game way more.

I've watched a couple of montages. The only Twitch streams I've ever watched were the Destiny reveals.

Dark Soldier

Yeah but if they were still images you'd be whacking one out, we know.

b0r1s

DS is on form tonight.

Gotta go cross thread for the gems :-)

Yossarian

Screenshots of games? Bleh, no.

djchump

I_R wrote:

I think theatre mode was something that relied on MS and was only available to their own studios. Forza was the only other game that I remember having it. Magic of the cloud probably. Definitely better, but it took work and lacked the immediacy of the current solution.

Not so much clod - a lot of games have round/level record and replay - it basically buffers up all the activity for each entity in a long time-stamped list of who did what and when, then let's you replay that back. It's a different beast to video recording as you effectively reload the level and all its assets and then play back the round again - used very much in counter strike and those esports style FPS games, but available since way way back.

The lovely thing about it is the camera freedom it allows for any spectators - particularly blew me away in Halo 3 cos I was a graphics programmer and you get to freeze frame explosions and all their VFX work and then fly through it, pan around etc and it looks stunning. I get the same kind of techboner when I watch the TV/movie VFX breakdowns where they freeze frame it then strip away and show you the layers. There's an Evangelion one doing the rounds at the minute that has some cracking freeze pan pasts of the big mech smashing through a building.

stonechalice

Dante and Chump, you'll be pleased to know that Halo 5 has an amazing theatre mode.

Paul the sparky

Lots of bullshit being spouted in here. Unsurprising given the OP, then the 'unexpected' clarification, as revolutionary and unexpected don't always go hand in hand. Indeed some revolutionary steps are both predicted and expected, the jump from 2D to 3D must have been seen and wished for by anyone who's ever played a game.

The need for Destiny players to horseshoe it into every fucking thread and discussion is more than tiring now though.

Djornson

I feel estranged from the BDF. I'm going to form a splinter faction.

Paul the sparky

I feel like quoting JonB again, cos he hit the nail on the head. In fact fuck it, here it is:

JonB wrote:

It's hardly likely you'll get anything revolutionary after this long. The last major changes were from 2D to 3D, and then to online MP, and then it's been refinement ever since, with all the major genres long-established. Even new controllers like the Wii were novelty rather than revolution, otherwise we'd still be using them now. And social media hasn't changed games themselves much.

I don't think it's just about some dearth of creativity (although there is some of that), rather the inevitable outcome of a medium establishing its capabilities and limits.

Perhaps if there's anything left it'll be some major jump forward in AI that becomes standard and broadens the possibilities of interacting with game characters.

Yossarian

Paul the sparky wrote:

The need for Destiny players to horseshoe it into every fucking thread and discussion is more than tiring now though.

Shoehorn?

Paul the sparky

Lol.

Yossarian

But yes, popular game that people love tends to be relevant in threads about popular or important games. Finding it annoying is likely to be aggravating.

Dark Soldier

I get what sparks means though, may fuck off to rllmuk at this rate.

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