Got to add, any game that can make you think this deeply about its plot and characters is a damned amazing game...

Ali wrote:

Got to add, any game that can make you think this deeply about its plot and characters is a damned amazing game...

I was kind of unsure about the ending as I was expecting a big emo moment and then didn't get it (and I think even the game leads you on with the desperate carrying-around-Ellie-while-dramatic-music-plays bit) but after a bit of time I've decided I like it and like how it acts as a discussion piece.

One thing I just thought of. What if Ellie can pass on her immunity to any kids she has? If she can and if the Fireflies were not actually able to create a vaccine from her, perhaps Joel has inadvertently 'done the right thing'.

Is what I thought. Though Joel, not David. Best magic up a son for Tommy and Maria to desavile it.

And your man's right about buying rounds. Taking it in turns to go to the bar, yeah - sure, but what's wrong with paying for your own? I always quietly resented paying for rounds when my drink was by far the cheapest.

Good words, Ali.

Dammit did noone read my post

Key points:

America isnt the world
We dont know if ellies the only one like her, i think Joel likes to think this is the case on his final lie
Id assume the fireflies could attempt to make a vaccine and have the resources to do it with. They're also a terrorist group/political faction, theres no real assurance that their use of it would be considered altruistic

As said by a few people, we got Joel and Ellies story, one of god knows how many feasibly going on in the game's world, you cant tell anything at all about the future of mankind by the end of the game, cause there are many things that are left unsaid, in fact the wider fate of humankind is completely unknown and almost trivial in comparison, cause in the end it was about how two people made their own journey through those circumstances. Given that i just cant see anything other than Joel's final acts of violence making as much sense in regards to the rest of the story, and his last words just telling us a lot about the kinda guy he is. A regular guy (Ability to cure any gunshot wound by bandaging his arm and being able to make identical crafts regularly with minimum tools notwithstanding)

The fungus is separate from the Fireflies. As Shinji says, the Fireflies are reacting against the heavy handed government crack down. However, what starts off as a bunch of idealists fighting oppression, eventually turns into just another militaristic organisation. It's a little microcosm for so many such organisations throughout the world, who eventually end up the oppressive government if they win their fight, all idealism lost.

As ND stated The Road as a major influence, I bought it yesterday. Already half way through. If you think the world of TLoU is bleak, you should try this! Amazing book, but heart breakingly bleak.

I think there is a hardcover artbook or something.

If you're trading The Road and enjoying it, carry on to other Cormac McCarthy stuff like Blood Meridian. You won't regret it.

The Road is certainly near non-stop bleak but I wouldn't suggest a story that ends with the quiet realisation that the main guy is basically a terminally haunted lunatic is un-bleak. (To keep up the McCarthy, beardface is deffo leaning more Anton Chigurh.)

Actually I say "main guy", but at that point I think there's a fair argument for reframing the entire player-surrogate relationship as belonging to the girl (with the player's control of the Joel being more about objectified if intimate observation than identification). And it's done relatively subtly too, which is miraculous given the standards of cutscenewrite in the AAA tier.

God Bless America?

Buffalo '66 and of course Natural Born Killers cover similar territory.

argh there are 2 threads! no spoiler tags here though, am relax

And another thing.....

There's been a lot of arguement about Joel removing the vaccine from humanity as being the end of humanity. However, Joel has seen how large organisations grand plans have failed miserably in the past. The quarantine zones, resulting in the death of Sarah and, we have to assume, thousands of others. And the bombing of major cities, which not only failed to halt the infection but resulted in countless deaths. This sacrifice of the few to benefit the many has come up before and has failed miserably to help. Why should removing Ellie's brain be any different? It's another recurrent theme. Humanity being sacrificed to bring back the old civilisation. And one that Joel rebels against. It makes sense to me.

Smang wrote:

judging by the way most people act in the game - by the end i felt like no one deserved a cure!

True. Except Henry and Sam, of course. But that ended rather less well than hoped.

i forgot to say that this game is also responsible for showing me that Nolan North can do other stuff besides "Drake Voice". guy has some range i tells you, didn't spot him until his character had already spoken a fair few lines.

Tempy wrote:

@moto70 I never said that, fwiw

You're right, it was Ali. I may have still interpreted it wrong even though I now have the right person.