Every Month is Metal Month Solid - The Bear and Badger

Blue Swirl

Paul the sparky wrote:

Hold your horses before spouting wrongness then.

No u.

Vela

Blue Swirl wrote:

Vela wrote:

The PS2 version, and presumably PS3 versions of MGS3 require you to use the dpad for sneaking. That way you are silent, and avoid Benny Hill movements. Also, a general tip, is to remove any bolts before healing the wound.

It's been yonks since I played MGS3, might try using the d-pad on the 3DS version. The healing system I was fine with. (I also misread your first post and assumed your were talking about MGS4. Woops.)

I'm not sure if it will work the same on 3DS, reason being that didn't the PS2 controller have a degree of pressure sensitivity as well?

I may be wrong, I know the ps2 face buttons did.

In any case, dpad for sneaking is essential.

Not using it is akin to not knowing what the ink ribbons are in Resident Evil. I have a friend who died 4 times on the first Hunter in original RE before he figured out what typewriters were for.

Tempy

I've never used the dpad to sneak in MGS3 and I've finished it quite a few times.

Paul the sparky

I didn't want to admit that. The typewriter thing is incredible though, the hunters don't show up until over halfway through.

Tempy

I'm not sure you need to use it, but it stopped you from accidentally moving with enough speed to trigger the non-sneaking state. I was just very careful with my control. Maybe I'm totally wrong and I've poured hours into the game whilst playing it totally incorrectly.

Edit: ooo I got spoopy post number

Paul the sparky

Nah, that's what the analog stick is for innit? I don't remember switching between the dpad and stick, but it has been years since I've played it.

g.man

Blue Swirl wrote:

Vela wrote:

MGS 4 ahead of 3 is unusual. Pourquoi?

...It all depends on how things go from here, but I'm six or so hours in and loving it.

...So you're still at the opening cutscene then?

cockbeard

Haha

cockbeard

I remember completing mgs4 then going downstairs to the pub just to drop something off. That turned into a few pints then it got busy so I jumped on the bar to help out, ended up working ages and then having a fair few more beers, finally went upstairs and the credits were still rolling

Bollockoff

Tempy is a scrub.

hylian_elf

He's a back scrub.

mrsmr2

FFS2 (Fiddly Fuck Solid 2) is finished.

No idea what was going on the end, it was completely bonkers. Game had it's moments but too much frustration really.
Going to have a read about the plot.

Hope part 3 isn't FFS3.

Vela

MGS2 is a simulated mission designed to produce a new Snake for Cipher. Or at least that's the decoy.

Blue Swirl

mrsmr2 wrote:

No idea what was going on the end, it was completely bonkers. Game had it's moments but too much frustration really.

This.

I wouldn't bother trying to decipher the plot, I don't think even Kojima understands what was going on.

mistercrayon

It's fairly straight forward.

mistercrayon

Best story in all of metal gear Imo.

Tempy

I think 3 is the best, but 2 is the most experimental and pulls off that post-modern vibe really well. It's as confusing as Infinite Jest, e.g not very, but it is dense and full of tricks. Unlike IJ, you're not always privy to the footnotes in MGS, and when you are it's usually because they're in the main body which is clumsier. Fact is there's lots of essays and reviews and plot analysis out there that reach very similar conclusions about what's going on, so it's clearly coherent enough to withstand that kind of close reading, and multiple people are able to parse it so there is definitely intent and logic there.

Tempy

The whole 'it's dumb and impenetrable' is an oft trotted cliche by now I feel. Not without flaws, but in retrospect what it's doing is so obvious. At the time I didn't get it, now it looks cute.

Vela

Tempy wrote:

The whole 'it's dumb and impenetrable' is an oft trotted cliche by now I feel. Not without flaws, but in retrospect what it's doing is so obvious. At the time I didn't get it, now it looks cute.

It's doing a few things which I didnt get at the time but are clear now with hindsight and explanation

1. The S3 plan is about filtering information into a context. Its not unlike the control of information through language, in Nineteen Eighty Four. Only it has a different intent.
2. The other S3 plan is about creating a way to form soldiers according to an archetype of the Solid Snake profile (Big Boss profile?). Raiden is the lab rat. Alternatively, so is the player.
3. Its a power play between Cipher and Ocelot. Once you play MGS3, 4 and Peace Walker, the full context of who and what the over arching characters are motivated by.

mistercrayon

There's a lot to like in 3 but the story is also a lot safer and on ground.

Every misstep (heh on birdshit, natch) in 2 feels annoying but more forgivable on account of its boldness elsewhere.

Blue Swirl

mistercrayon wrote:

Best story in all of metal gear Imo.

Ban request.

I think we give MGS2 a much too easy ride. Any other game came out with a plot that mental we'd be laughing at it. I have to mirror what Tempy said - "it's not crap, it's post-modern" is an oft trotted out cliche. You can be post-modern without being bat crap crazy. Occam's razor would suggest that MGS2 is just a bit rubbish.

Tempy

What a load of shit

Tempy

The asserration that it's post-modern isn't cliche, or an excuse for how crazy it is, it's literally just what it is. Its plot references and highlights the fact that it is an artificial construct, a text, it's a commentary on itself and the context it exists in. To suggest you can be post-modern without being bat shit crazy doesn't rule out the ability to be post-modern and be bat shit crazy. Just read a Pynchon novel.

Tempy

As for the easy ride, it's highly debated how effective MGS2 actually is, and as always it's eminently possible to admire what something is attempting to achieve and what we perceive it to achieve without necessarily giving it out entire approval.

The Occam's razor comment seems particularly out of place, because this isn't a fact based situation, this is individuals reading into a text what they see. Any interpretation backed up is valid, fuck a razor.

It's literally saying "simplest thing is to call it shit" - that's too easy for me.

Blue Swirl

Tempy wrote:

What a load of shit

I'm sorry, does my opinion differ to yours? OH NOES.

Tempy

That's absolutely not what I'm saying.

edit for clarity: You're very welcome to dislike it, but to assume that post-modernism is a label just given to defend it despite its form, and that logic somehow dictates it's more likely to be shit than worth debating is simply reductive.

mistercrayon

The thing is the story is not that crazy.

In 2002 or whatever it probably was but it now echos modern (2015) trends of information sharing and automation. That was visionary.

The games narrative makes raiden whiny and annoying as he plays mgs1 which is what players were doing when they were playing mgs2 (a simulation of mgs1).

It's mindbogglingly intricate.

Vela

mistercrayon wrote:

The thing is the story is not that crazy. In 2002 or whatever it probably was but it now echos modern (2015) trends of information sharing and automation. That was visionary. The games narrative makes raiden whiny and annoying as he plays mgs1 which is what players were doing when they were playing mgs2 (a simulation of mgs1). It's mindbogglingly intricate.

Really, the commentary about needing AI to filter out the mindless drivel on the Internet is even more salient now after the rise and rise of social networks. Every dumb opinion and belief can thrive in its own echo chamber and nuanced discussion is drowned out entirely.

g.man

Raiden is still a fanny tho.

Tempy

For all of the game bar the last chapter, yep. And even then I'm not conviced I'm the biggest fan of how the backstory is handled.

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