Are "Wavy Wavy" Controls The Future Or A Misguided Movement (Ho Ho!)?
  • When input matters, you design for a specific, most intuitive, single physical control per action:
    Sauber-C33-steering-wheel.jpg
  • Having tried Minecraft on my tablet and given up because the touchscreen controls were horrendous, I was amazed the other day to see my 9 year old niece whizzing around on the iPhone version, performing tasks at speeds I'd struggle to match with a controller.

    Kids are so familiar with touchscreen input devices by that age that a significant proportion much regard 'proper' gaming and controllers as archaic.
  • Yossarian
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    Also, how many buttons does your mouse have, and how imprecise to you consider it to be?

    I use a trackpad, so one physical button. I don't really consider it precise enough for gaming, tbh.

    You're talking about replacing traditional control pads with touch and gyro though. In my experiance, the games that use traditional controllers haven't survived the transition to mobile very well, and the best mobile games are either conversions of mouse led games or new ideas built from the new input system.

    They types of games that are popular can and will evolve too.
  • The game pad is already a niche product when you put it up against the amount of people gaming with a touchscreen or a mouse. The people that distribute most of the hardcore, big budget PC games have spent the last few years working on a replacement for the mouse and keyboard. Something else is the future, I'm just not sure we've seen it yet. A wand shaped touchscreen pointer with buttons sounds ideal and ridiculous at the same time.
  • davyK
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    Someone mentioned FPS controls earlier. The Wii offered an excellent system with the wiimote and nunchuck. You aim / look with the pointer and move/strafe with the nunchuck. I found it to be an excellent system. One of the reasons I became disenchanted with the genre was the console control scheme - could never get on with the twin stick setup.

    I believe with sufficient grunt under the hood it would be superior to twin stick and would challenge keyboard and mouse as the optimal method.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • The chuck and lightgun system is really great, I want to see it continue as long as FPS games are still a thing. The Skullo versions of Metroid Prime are definitive.
  • Twin sticks has always felt like a fudge. It's a mouse and keys control scheme. A pointer does a better job than a mouse and a stick does a better job than keys.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • dynamiteReady
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    djchump wrote:
    When input matters, you design for a specific, most intuitive, single physical control per action: Sauber-C33-steering-wheel.jpg

    I did consider this. Aircraft especially. And of course, Street Fighter (yes... Which is probably still my favourite game, so consider my perspective on this subject). But then we'll have to talk about the games that need this apparent fidelity, their popularity, and possible schemes for replacement... Like the Metroid thing, which sounds like it would reduce the need for a good number of buttons...
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • Only a matter of time before something like a leap motion gets integrated into a phone, esp when phones become central computing devices rather than peripheral, and they can manage quite a lot. They already are quite easily powerful enough to take on tasks usually attributed to personal computers at the top end. Why not two depth sensors at each end for each side? The technology's getting cheap as fuck thanks to kinect, and with that available any number of inputs can be mapped to wherever the feck you want, map it to a tap on the table near the phone, plus Google will like this cause you'll be sending it point cloud data from which it will be reconstructing its model of planet earth (Happening)
  • If I had the space and the software was sufficiently low in demand for exercise beyond just strolling leisurely, I'd be well up for VR+treadmill setups.
  • cockbeard
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    Vr walking is spackered, I may which to change direction or speed. Only real way to do it would be with a massive kugel ball, like big enough to walk on
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Yeah it needs to be an omnidirectional mat of some sort. It's doable.
  • If the OR needs some sort of companion treadmill to play games properly, it will have failed as a mainstream consumer device. It will be in the same category of leisure equipment as a pool table, nice to have if you've got the space.
  • dynamiteReady
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    cockbeard wrote:
    Vr walking is spackered, I may which to change direction or speed. Only real way to do it would be with a massive kugel ball, like big enough to walk on

    The ball thing actually sounds like an idea worth trying.

    Side note: I read 'massive kugel ball' as 'massive kegel ball'... kek.
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • Yossarian
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    monkey wrote:
    If the OR needs some sort of companion treadmill to play games properly, it will have failed as a mainstream consumer device. It will be in the same category of leisure equipment as a pool table, nice to have if you've got the space.

    Which is something that I believe it does need to make it truly immersive for any game experience which doesn't involve being strapped into a cockpit, and this is why I don't believe that it's going to herald the revolution in gaming that some people claim.
  • I'm still not convinced even things like the Rift alone will escape nichehood. Which is fine by me, there are all kinds of cool niches in the world.

    Like, the concept of grand unifying entertainment technologies seems to me to belong to a past and rather more monocultural era. We don't even watch the same movies no mo. I can't say that bothers me a great deal.
  • I'm fine with niche stuff. Preparing any product for a mass market push seems to involve making it terrible. It would be a shame if it's take up is limited by its control limitations though. I doubt I could have any special equipment set up unless it's something like a twister board that you can just wop out when needed and it's takes up no space when stored.

    [/moon on a stick]
  • There will be a massive rise in the number of wheelchair bound protagonists. Killer7 sequel ftw.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • dynamiteReady
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    Rear-Window-alfred-hitchcock-21250675-400-531.jpg

    Sure to bring a massive rise in any man. Wheelchair or not. *wheeze*
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
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  • Escape
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    http://comicsalliance.com/batman-and-robin-run-away-gifs

    Being serious for a minute, the North by Northwest one does translate the appeal of a virtual Op Flash. I think that there would be a niche audience for that. For me, it'd be mostly in winter when the weather stopped me from running outdoors.

    A treadmill for the jogging, with a Move-balled rifle (analogue tilt to turn) and a Rift. It's one of the few shooters where your aiming speed isn't a primary concern, with choose-your-own-effort built-in via vehicles. Fitness first, game second, but I think its world would really lend itself.

    Cabela's games, also, of course.
  • I had a nice post constructed here (well, a long post at least) and then a gestural swipe on the touchpad meant I lost it.

    To wit, I must say I prefer motion control over touch. Especially capacitive touch. Fuck that noise.
    "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." ― Terry Pratchett
  • Yossarian wrote:
    monkey wrote:
    If the OR needs some sort of companion treadmill to play games properly, it will have failed as a mainstream consumer device. It will be in the same category of leisure equipment as a pool table, nice to have if you've got the space.
    Which is something that I believe it does need to make it truly immersive for any game experience which doesn't involve being strapped into a cockpit, and this is why I don't believe that it's going to herald the revolution in gaming that some people claim.

    You don't need a treadmill, you don't need to totally be something to enjoy immersion (its like saying gamepads will never catch on because they don't feel like walking, or monitors will never catch on because real vision is never that small and flat and not-moving) and more appropriately you don't need a human body to be a good game. And it will be niche, I don't think anyone really into it expects it to be a huge thing for everyone, in its current form it's actually a pain in the arse, the technology will instead go into other things that will go on to come back to VR gaming on a large scale when the users had already gotten used to VR technology integrating their phone's OS with their vision

    Regarding leap motion and eyewear and related jokes, i'm talking about very complicated and refined technology being extremely small, like you have to squint to see it, made by enormous companies, like google, sony or samsung, big business for massive uptake in several years time, not goofy clunky gaming peripherals from the 80s

    I think the only point you'll get to having totally immersive VR where you can move inside an entirely virtual universe as a human being will be when we'll have direct neural stimulation, whenever that is, otherwise I think people will be quite happy being just short of feeling like they can be one with another universe (As a human being. I always find this particular rule or expectation of games quite irritating, mind)
  • Yossarian
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    LazyGunn wrote:
    You don't need a treadmill, you don't need to totally be something to enjoy immersion (its like saying gamepads will never catch on because they don't feel like walking, or monitors will never catch on because real vision is never that small and flat and not-moving)

    No, those examples are entirely unrelated. Both gamepads and monitors work because they're so abstracted from reality they are their own paradigm and are accepted as such. The entire promise of VR is based on amazing levels of immersion that are above and beyond anything we've ever seen before, but the fact is that the immersion we're being offered is limited to turning your head to move your camera through 180 degrees across two axes.
  • Escape
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    Yoss Stone.
  • A reminder that even current VR tech is a way off market readiness. Didn't Carmack himself say the necessary specs are minimum 4K resolutions per eye at actually over 60fps?
  • My napkin calculations put it over 4k per eye and I'll have to trust that 60fps is the minimum. Sounds plausible. I can see 60 on a screen, some of the PC master race have got used to >100hz and don't like going back.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • Escape
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    Would-be punters on one forum I visit are clamouring for 240+ Hz.
  • IanHamlett wrote:
    Twin sticks has always felt like a fudge. It's a mouse and keys control scheme. A pointer does a better job than a mouse and a stick does a better job than keys.

    Not convinced by that. A stick is definitely better than keys but a mouse is more precise than a pointer, and for some games that precision really, really matters.

    GT: Knight640

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