Weird Stuff (tinfoil hat wearing goons only, please) - The Bear and Badger

Yossarian

superflyninja wrote:

Should be doable. All we need are some F18s, few battleships and a Hawkeye.

Parallax applies to the viewing of the object, that surely wouldnt affect radar

They couldn’t get a radar lock.

Edit:

Quoting myself for page turn.

Yossarian wrote:

By all means go ahead and investigate these things, I don’t think anyone is arguing that they shouldn’t be investigated, it’s the jumping to conclusions which are incredibly unlikely based on the evidence and our current understanding of the world that people are arguing against. And insisting on these conclusions despite the lack of hard evidence for them and ignoring the evidence against them is definitely conspiratorial thinking.

monkey

Kow’s office wall

monkey

Yossarian wrote:

By all means go ahead and investigate these things, I don’t think anyone is arguing that they shouldn’t be investigated, it’s the jumping to conclusions which are incredibly unlikely based on the evidence and our current understanding of the world that people are arguing against. And insisting on these conclusions despite the lack of hard evidence for them and ignoring the evidence against them is definitely conspiratorial thinking.

Who’s doing this?

dynamiteReady

What do some of you think of the Gary McKinnon case?
It was quite a big, and relevant, 'alternate' news story, but can't remember if it was mentioned in this thread.

Kow

monkey wrote:

Kow’s office wall

How dare you. I don't have an office.

Kow

dynamiteReady wrote:

What do some of you think of the Gary McKinnon case? It was quite a big, and relevant, 'alternate' news story, but can't remember if it was mentioned in this thread.

Is he the guy who hacked into the Pentagon, purportedly looking for evidence of aliens?

dynamiteReady

Kow wrote:

What do some of you think of the Gary McKinnon case? It was quite a big, and relevant, 'alternate' news story, but can't remember if it was mentioned in this thread.

Is he the guy who hacked into the Pentagon, purportedly looking for evidence of aliens?

Yes. Evidence of what he found is still wooly, but the Americans have been on his dick for what amounts to decades now. It's amazing that he's still free, actually.

I think, at the very least, the US were inflamed by the breach itself, rather than what was lifted.

He was clinically diagnosed with Aspergers in the course of the legal proceeding surrounding his case, so he's not the kind of person to make a living on the public speaking circuit.

When you read his testimony, it's hard to believe he's lying, in part, because of the high powered attention he'd received, and also because of how fucking banal the story is (easy to find interviews with him online).

I'm less interested in what he's supposed to have found evidence of, and more interested in the vehemence of the US intelligence service. I'm sure they'd experienced far greater breaches of security by now, and they've forgiven seemingly worse crimes (Chelsea Manning).

That's how some of these theories are perpetuated.

edit - "how fucking banal the story is" I take that back. Going back over some of the details, he was in the middle of some seriously deep, post 9/11 legal shit. Sounds like they actually had to change some laws to protect him.

superflyninja

Yossarian wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Should be doable. All we need are some F18s, few battleships and a Hawkeye. Parallax applies to the viewing of the object, that surely wouldnt affect radar

They couldn’t get a radar lock. Edit: Quoting myself for page turn.

Yossarian wrote:

By all means go ahead and investigate these things, I don’t think anyone is arguing that they shouldn’t be investigated, it’s the jumping to conclusions which are incredibly unlikely based on the evidence and our current understanding of the world that people are arguing against. And insisting on these conclusions despite the lack of hard evidence for them and ignoring the evidence against them is definitely conspiratorial thinking.

But it showed up on radar didnt it?

Yossarian

I don’t know what the difference might be.

bad_hair_day

Maybe we should ask the operators and pilots.

Yossarian

Let us know what they say.

djchump

GurtTractor wrote:

I'd quite like to see something akin to the Mythbusters' Moon landings conspiracies episode, where people recreate the conditions in an attempt to purposely create the scenarios where you get the appearance of objects like these, just to see how viable the mundane explanations are.

Myself and Yoss have previously posted links to Mick West debunking videos - he does nice, simple examples and recreations to show parallax error, camera FOV, "auras" around objects when using IR cam etc.

The Truth is out there, it's just not "Out There".

bad_hair_day

Yossarian wrote:

Let us know what they say.

Well they say:

Yossarian

Not sure that’s much clearer. What does “get video on his radar” mean?

Armitage_Shankburn

I can confirm that the bit about "actively jamming another platform, yes technically it's an act of war" is bollocks, the sort of bollocksy bluster man might say to sound credible or authoritative to morons.

It's not looking good is it.

superflyninja

Not sure it matters, he wont be believed anyway. The Scullys are right, there is no answer on all of this. No matter what expert (pilot, whatever) relays their story, its dismissed out of hand by unreliable memory, faulty instruments, video errors, lies, grifting.

Why would I accept the work of Mick West? He knows more about being a fighter pilot than Fravor? He has more experience? Is Mick West a scientist?
Has any actual pilot of similar experience to Fravor come out and debunked the video and all the rest?

monkey

99% chance it’s future humans. Of the remaining 1%, 99% of that says it’s a mundane combination of visual error, instrument anomaly and actual WTFs, collected over decades and wrapped up in a nice bow for a Pentagon funding bump.

Roujin

Why would aliens visiting earth come in a craft that was equipped with electronic countermeasures?

If I look at it from a human perspective, our attempts at exploring the solar system have been made with civilian vehicles and craft. I know we are galactic babymen compared to any superior forms of life who have interstellar travel, but I'm kind of worried if aliens need to equip their craft with ECM, what are they worried about running into?

Yossarian

superflyninja wrote:

Not sure it matters, he wont be believed anyway. The Scullys are right, there is no answer on all of this. No matter what expert (pilot, whatever) relays their story, its dismissed out of hand by unreliable memory, faulty instruments, video errors, lies, grifting.

Why would I accept the work of Mick West? He knows more about being a fighter pilot than Fravor? He has more experience? Is Mick West a scientist?
Has any actual pilot of similar experience to Fravor come out and debunked the video and all the rest?

Mick West shows his working and demonstrates how you can achieve the same results as in the videos (assuming you can get hold of the equipment of course). He’s running experiments and making his workings available for his peers to review. Y’know, science.

bad_hair_day

Yossarian wrote:

Not sure that’s much clearer. What does “get video on his radar” mean?

The way the pixels are interpreted on a F18 screen? Seems another quibble bud.

Yossarian

It’s not a quibble, it’s a sentence that I don’t understand.

bad_hair_day

I think the gist of the explanation is clear enough.

Yossarian

You would, to be fair.

djchump

superflyninja wrote:

...
Why would I accept the work of Mick West?

Have you watched it?
I posted the one where he debunked the “go fast” ufo video. It’s really very simple maths he uses.

superflyninja wrote:

He knows more about being a fighter pilot than Fravor?

Have you watched it?
All he did was analyse the video, use the sensor information (altitude, camera fov, camera tilt angle, distance range to object) and very simple maths to disprove the ufologist claims that the object was low and fast, by proving that it was near the ground but halfway between the jet altitude and the ground.

superflyninja wrote:

He has more experience? Is Mick West a scientist?

He’s a very accomplished programmer, so is well versed in 3D maths. However, you don’t need to be an expert to follow along with the proof, it was very simple maths.

He’s not a fighter pilot, no, but then he’s not arguing that Fravor cant fly a plane, just that the “go fast” video (which I don’t think was even Fravor’s capture? Just one that he commented on when being interviewed on one of those “ZOMG UFO MYSTERY” tv programs) doesn’t show what the ufo-attentional-complex was claiming that it showed.

superflyninja wrote:

Has any actual pilot of similar experience to Fravor come out and debunked the video and all the rest?

You know what could answer a lot of your questions? Maybe use your open mind and watch the Mick West video where he debunks the “go fast” ufo clip?

Ah, but I guess you’d fall into that “lol he’s not a fighter pilot he doesn’t know what he’s talking about with this simple maths, the pilots must know more therefore I won’t bother thinking for myself I’ll just dismiss this counter-evidence as a keyboard warrior who doesn’t know how to fly a plane!” so maybe don’t waste your time. Just believe what you want.

Yossarian

Also to be fair, I don’t even know why I’m thinking about this, it was Ninja’s question, not mine.

Does that seem clear to you, Ninja?

djchump

Here we go - but only for the open-minded among us:

I’m sure the close-minded that love to appeal to authority will just hand-wave away the simple maths proof with “but he’s not a fighter pilot so he doesn’t know how to use eyes to look at a video!”

djchump

It still amuses me that the folk who insist that “it’s big, close to the surface and moving at impossible speeds!” are basically Dougal

dynamiteReady

Interesting. Mick West has been on Joe Rogan 'several times', apparently.
Not blasting the guy, because he seems cool.

But I did want to highlight that specific point.

Paul the sparky

Why?

monkey

If Mick West is profiting in some way from airing his views, then toss out everything he's ever said.

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