Weird Stuff (tinfoil hat wearing goons only, please) - The Bear and Badger

bad_hair_day

Good work up there Sparkles.

bad_hair_day

’X Files music’

Armitage_Shankburn

Paul the sparky wrote:

Spaceships and aliens in their flying saucers
Eyewitness testimony of anal probed daughters
Shaky cam footage of frisbees on strings
These are a few of my Fravorite things

Lol

monkey

Amazing work.

GurtTractor

bad_hair_day wrote:

Gurt, that’s because the evolutionary trip switch in your brain is noping out. That’s fine, but it’s not just Fravor’s account is it? I take it you’ve read the summary. As to UAP incident’s being rare, from the prism of the ones we get to know about, yes.

No, I'm specifially trying to model my interpretation using the basis of scientific theory, which is a relatively recent invention in human history, and I'm trying to avoid the kind of pitfalls that cause the beginning of religions etc. Not saying I'm perfect, far from it, I'm just aiming for some kind of rationality here and to not get ahead of myself.

There's like a small handful of witnesses for this thing, without proper contemporary individual reports from all of them that I can pore over I can't muster more than a shrug. The coverage seems to be dominated by Fravor's account and I'm struggling to see much else.

Lord_Griff

Has elm had a race with a ufo.

bad_hair_day

Gurt, do you have a specific number of witnesses in mind, because then we can flip it to mass hallucinations.

Wookienopants

Lord_Griff wrote:

Has elm had a race with a ufo.

I'll ask him today

Wookienopants

My job is one of air safety... I cannot confirm or deny the existence of such things.

Gremill

Paul the sparky wrote:

Spaceships and aliens in their flying saucers
Eyewitness testimony of anal probed daughters
Shaky cam footage of frisbees on strings
These are a few of my Fravorite things

Oh, bravo sir.

b0r1s

Gremill wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

Spaceships and aliens in their flying saucers
Eyewitness testimony of anal probed daughters
Shaky cam footage of frisbees on strings
These are a few of my Fravorite things

Oh, bravo sir.

If I had a YouTube ufo channel I’d commission this as my intro.

Moot_Geeza

Caught up on dozens of pages in here recently, one of the forum's most enjoyable threads. Top work all, extra pat on the back for Sparky.

superflyninja

b0r1s wrote:

I pronounced it Deenoh when I met him and he didn’t punch me so I assume it’s ok *didn’t think you were being flippant btw.

Wow, Ive been saying Dino like wino all these years. Game changer.

@gman Also what are the red cafe forums?

g.man

It's a Man Utd forum.

Wookienopants

g.man wrote:

It's a Man Utd forum.

Is that a football thing?

superflyninja

GurtTractor wrote:

You're not quite getting what I'm saying. A genuine belief in the supernatural adds weight to the likelyhood that the testimony is flawed, for neurological reasons I've alluded to above. I certainly wouldn't go as far as to entirely dismiss such evidence, but it's a massive 'hmmm...'. I would actually like to have a look at the original reports for each of the pilots from that incident, to see what does and doesn't line up.

But its not just his testimony. Its testimony from other pilots, radar operators etc. Plus video of the event. Im sure the navy has much more, radar records, logs and such.
I get what you mean about his belief system and without the supporting evidence, Id find it hard to argue with you that it wouldn't have some impact on his perception.

Fallible memory aside, the guy is an experienced fighter pilot. Id be more inclined to think his memory as recorded in his debrief or whatever was at least somewhat accurate. More accurate at least than some random person happening to look out the window of a passenger jet and seeing a UFO. Like BHD said, if this was presented as a MIG being spotted and we had the same eye witness accounts, cockpit video and confirmation of radar etc this wouldnt even be questioned.
Can Occam's Razor not be applied to this? What is the simplest explanation given these statements:
Multiple corroborated eyewitness accounts by experienced personnel.
Sensor readings from multiple sources measured over the course of 6 days.
In cockpit footage of the UAP. (More on file unreleased I would imagine).

To me it boils down to two things. Either the Navy is spoofing us or they encountered a genuine UAP.
I dont buy the explanation that all these separate sensor systems on multiple craft over the course of 6 days malfunctioned in the same way to confirm the same thing and that the eye witnesses just so happen to misremember the events to match the malfunctions.
No way of knowing if the Navy are lying, that leaves a question around the UAP still. It being a UAP doesnt mean its aliens or even artificial in orgin.

Minkymu

Maybe one day we will all know for sure regards UFO’s.

Lets hope it not an independence day style revea, but more of a close encounters style hello

superflyninja

Minkymu wrote:

Maybe one day we will all know for sure regards UFO’s.

Lets hope it not an independence day style revea, but more of a close encounters style hello

amen sister

Kow

Jaysis, we've been getting the same testimonials for near on 70 years from the military and pilots etc and it amounts to nothing. The original Roswell stuff is military, with pictures of soldiers holding sticks and tinfoil - the remains of a UFO. The evidence hasn't become better or clearer. it's the same nonsense. And it's the same conspiracy theory trash. Nobody has to watch all the videos in order to have an opinion because a) it's the same as it's always been and b) I don't have to watch David Icke videos in order to have an opinion on whether lizards really rule the world or not. That's the way conspiracy theory works - you read up on a bunch of stuff and it becomes convincing, and down the rabbit hole you go. Lots of data and statistics about what's possible and impossible and suddenly you have lay people holding forth about physics etc. Like 911 - suddenly everyone was an expert on jet fuel and concrete and steel girders. UFOs are no different, they're a rabbit hole to go down and convince yourself with the mountains of 'evidence'. It's all very entertaining but it's the same just out of reach 'truth' that any conspiracy theory has.

GurtTractor

Basically my opinion in rough descending order of whot I reckon likelyness for any given UAP incident:

Eyewitness and/or instrument error
Natural phenomenon that looks unnatural
Man-made phenomenon that accidentally looks ufoish
Pranks and grifting
Advanced human tech whizzing about
...
...
...
...
...
Aliens

I might move the order of those around depending on the specific event, but they mostly all seem to have the same pattern of shitey photo/videography and limited anecdotal evidence of a dubious nature. The ones where there's multiple sensor readings are more interesting, and I can certainly believe there are some crazy advanced drones out there that we don't know much about yet.

bad_hair_day

Always like a good advanced drone incident, this one is from November 1986.

Wookie, good luck with your meeting today. Thought you might be interested on what a former D.C. division manager of the FAA Accidents and Investigations has to say about their UFO dealings.

Kow, you’ll love this, it’s got Military, C.I.A and F.B.I. involvement.

monkey

If you haven't watched the videos of UNIDENTIFIED FLYING FUCKING OBJECTS FLYING IN THE FUCKING SKY UNIDENTIFIABLY but still feel you're able to dismiss them, then I don't know what to do for you. I don't believe any of that old shit but I do believe my own eyes. The videos could be fake of course. But then that's a conspiracy theory. Now you're down the rabbit hole where the Government are lying to you about UFOs because secret reasons. Just watch the video. It's 1 minute 20 seconds long.

Fighter pilots seeing weird stuff has been happening since we invented fighter pilots. Reports of lightning quick thingies that can twist and turn at unbelievable speeds, don't act in a threatening way, but are generally a bit nosey about military stuff. And they skedaddle as soon as anyone gets close. None of that is new. I don't have any reason to disbelieve any of these guys that have seen this stuff, apart from the fallibility of human perception.

Really depends where you are on the sceptic spectrum whether you think reports of UFOs since WW2 supports the case or doesn't. So, while I don't auto-disbelieve any of these first hand accounts, I don't know how useful they are or how much they add. What there's never been before is accompanying video. It's really not a conspiracy theory if the United States Government is saying this stuff exists.

Yossarian

I’ve watched them, I dismiss them being alien.

monkey

I have no idea if they're alien and nor does anyone else. I'd put that in the same tier of probability as dimension-travellers, the bottom tier where you can just make up any old wacky shit to explain something away.

Future humans though...

superflyninja

GurtTractor wrote:

Basically my opinion in rough descending order of whot I reckon likelyness for any given UAP incident: Eyewitness and/or instrument error Natural phenomenon that looks unnatural Man-made phenomenon that accidentally looks ufoish Pranks and grifting Advanced human tech whizzing about ... ... ... ... ... Aliens I might move the order of those around depending on the specific event, but they mostly all seem to have the same pattern of shitey photo/videography and limited anecdotal evidence of a dubious nature. The ones where there's multiple sensor readings are more interesting, and I can certainly believe there are some crazy advanced drones out there that we don't know much about yet.

I would move pranks and grifting higher in the list to be honest. No mention of unknown natural phenomena?
Im interested in what you think specifically of the TicTac/Fravor incident given that there is so much accompanying (real or fake?) evidence.

Kow's response up there is along the lines of what I mentioned yesterday: "Its not aliens, im not looking videos or anything, move along nothing to see here. Dont waste time researching this its all horsehit". If something has been reported for over 70s years as you say then do you not think there might be something there worth investigating? David Ike is a completely different kettle of batshit crazy fish. He is a single person promoting a narrative for grifting purposes IMO.

The term "Conspiracy theory" is getting bandied about far too often. Its getting slapped on anything that people dont want discussed. Only today I heard on the radio today it described that the possibility of covid coming from a lab was a conspiracy theory but now maybe isnt because of new info coming out. Using language like that is very dismissive and puts a label on the story and associates it with the tinfoil hat brigade. To talk about this now is opening you up to ridicule. Its very dangerous carry on IMO. FFS corona has fucked over the world and people are labeling a possible origin as a conspiracy theory? FFS.

GurtTractor

I mentioned natural phenomena, which includes the known and the unknown variety. And yeah pranks/grifting probably accounts for a high percentage of reports.

The tictac thing... It's either instrument and observer error, parallax effects etc, of some balloon or other floating object. Or advanced drone which would be neat/scary. But the available info is so blurry and limited that it doesn't seem worth obsessing over as it just leads into a vortex of speculation.

GurtTractor

I'd quite like to see something akin to the Mythbusters' Moon landings conspiracies episode, where people recreate the conditions in an attempt to purposely create the scenarios where you get the appearance of objects like these, just to see how viable the mundane explanations are.

superflyninja

Should be doable. All we need are some F18s, few battleships and a Hawkeye.

Parallax applies to the viewing of the object, that surely wouldnt affect radar

Kow

superflyninja wrote:

GurtTractor wrote:

Basically my opinion in rough descending order of whot I reckon likelyness for any given UAP incident: Eyewitness and/or instrument error Natural phenomenon that looks unnatural Man-made phenomenon that accidentally looks ufoish Pranks and grifting Advanced human tech whizzing about ... ... ... ... ... Aliens I might move the order of those around depending on the specific event, but they mostly all seem to have the same pattern of shitey photo/videography and limited anecdotal evidence of a dubious nature. The ones where there's multiple sensor readings are more interesting, and I can certainly believe there are some crazy advanced drones out there that we don't know much about yet.

I would move pranks and grifting higher in the list to be honest. No mention of unknown natural phenomena?
Im interested in what you think specifically of the TicTac/Fravor incident given that there is so much accompanying (real or fake?) evidence.

Kow's response up there is along the lines of what I mentioned yesterday: "Its not aliens, im not looking videos or anything, move along nothing to see here. Dont waste time researching this its all horsehit". If something has been reported for over 70s years as you say then do you not think there might be something there worth investigating? David Ike is a completely different kettle of batshit crazy fish. He is a single person promoting a narrative for grifting purposes IMO.

The term "Conspiracy theory" is getting bandied about far too often. Its getting slapped on anything that people dont want discussed. Only today I heard on the radio today it described that the possibility of covid coming from a lab was a conspiracy theory but now maybe isnt because of new info coming out. Using language like that is very dismissive and puts a label on the story and associates it with the tinfoil hat brigade. To talk about this now is opening you up to ridicule. Its very dangerous carry on IMO. FFS corona has fucked over the world and people are labeling a possible origin as a conspiracy theory? FFS.

Nothing has changed in 70 years. There'll be the same 911 conspiracies in another 50 years. I'm not watching the same thing over and over again as if demonstrates anything new. No conspiracy is a conspiracy if you're prepered to give it credence. Once you're prepared to put your for down the rabbit hole then of course this one isn't anything like the lizards one. UFOs are of course a conspiracy because somebody is hiding something from us which we deserve to know. The truth is out there.

Yossarian

By all means go ahead and investigate these things, I don’t think anyone is arguing that they shouldn’t be investigated, it’s the jumping to conclusions which are incredibly unlikely based on the evidence and our current understanding of the world that people are arguing against. And insisting on these conclusions despite the lack of hard evidence for them and ignoring the evidence against them is definitely conspiratorial thinking.

Howdy, Stranger!

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