Palestine and the Middle East - a thread
  • When I'm wrestling with these issues, I turn to prominent Jewish voices, especially great thinkers such as Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein. Sir Gerald Kaufman also has plenty to offer on the subject of Israeli-Palestine relations, as in this speech from 2009...



    It's a desperately tragic situation and peace seems an incredibly distant hope but all eyes are now on Israel's response to the Hamas atrocities. So far though the IDF appear to have killed at least 3000 Palestinians in retaliation, including 1000 children. In the past 15 years alone, there have been 20 times as many Palestinians fatalities as those on the Israeli side of the conflict.


    One thing's for sure. Our govt and the UK establishment as a whole have a fucktonne of blood on their hands.
  • I did like this bit where obvious horseshit is exposed as such:
    The Israeli army also released a video with a recording of a conversation between purported Hamas officials, where they appear to talk about the misfired rocket that had caused the hospital blast.

    Earshot said that a forensic sound analysis revealed that the audio was recorded on two separate channels, and then edited together, disqualifying it from being a credible source of evidence.

    In its analysis of the audio, Channel 4 said it had found the call’s credibility questionable due to the syntax used, accent and tone of voice.
  • I hear two hostages (US citizens) have been released and 20 trucks (is that it?!) of aid has just been let through. 

    Assume trouble still brewing in the north with Hezbollah.
    I am a FREE. I am not MAN. A NUMBER.
  • Another Palestinian solidarity march happening in London midday, at Marble Arch. If I lived in London I would be there
  • Yeah I would have 100% gone if I was around.
    I am a FREE. I am not MAN. A NUMBER.
  • Massive numbers by the looks of it, good to see.
  • 70,000 or so, the weather probably didn't help
  • Screenshot-20231021-174704-Instagram.jpg

    What a beautiful image of solidarity, JC with the Palestine ambassador

    Edit: apparently there were 300,000 protestors !

    One of the 10 largest protests in UK history
  • davyK
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    17ed9RZ.jpg
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • b0r1s
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    Yes watched that the other day. Spot on and scarily prescient.
  • Kow
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    Jon Stewart's TV show has been dropped by Apple for planning a show that might not have been 100% supportive of Israel's destruction of Gaza, and another that dared to be critical of China. Good indication of the value of any opinion from corporate owned media (ie all of it)
  • b0r1s
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    Wankers! That was a great show.
  • Seems to be no nuance in this scenario to allow any form of progressive discussion. I think that's shown when the likes of Sunak use terms like "win". I'm not sure what the solution is or how you would get there but "win" is not the right language to apply.

    I mean I don't even know which side is the woke one anymore.
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  • Kow
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    Doesn't matter as long as you don't support Palestinians in any shape or form. Or rather that you are 100% supportive of Israel without reservation.
  • Always have the strong feeling that this world doesn’t deserve Jon Stewart
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  • Edit - soz prob not the thread for flippant derails
    "Like i said, context is missing."
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  • Kow wrote:
    Jon Stewart's TV show has been dropped by Apple for planning a show that might not have been 100% supportive of Israel's destruction of Gaza, and another that dared to be critical of China. Good indication of the value of any opinion from corporate owned media (ie all of it)

    From what I read, it was less the show being dropped and actually Stewart taking a stand and telling them to shove it if he wasn't allowed to do that.
    I'm falling apart to songs about hips and hearts...
  • Kow
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    Same same.
  • Jon Stewart annoyed me with his views on something though, recently, and he dropped in my estimation quite considerably. But now I can't remember what the thing was. Possibly something to do with the actors' strike...
  • acemuzzy
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    “Jews and Arabs, we will get through this together.”

    That's enough to get you started in Israel, it seems
  • Veering dangerously close to anti-Semitic tropes in here.

    As for the ‘slow genicide of the Palestinian people’ in the OP. I find it incredibly grim that after the most horrific, awful atrocities committed by Hamas, and given the ongoing calls for genicide against Jews in cities across the west it’s only Israel’s crimes that merit that tag in the OP.

    I won’t be contributing anymore to the thread so apologies in advance to anyone engaging with my post, but don’t feel like you need to.
    GT: Knight640
  • acemuzzy
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    It's great that you've engaged so deeply with the surrounding topics
  • Kow
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    Why bother posting at all if it's only to say you won't contribute anymore? I don't think anyone here is being belligerent, and other views are welcome for debate.
  • b0r1s
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    Ongoing calls for genocide of Jewish people is a horrible thing to say. On balance I’d say it’s not quite as bad as having your home slowly eradicated through forced resettlement or just having your homes plain flattened with bombs while killing half your family. No one needs to call for genocide for the Palestinians as it’s just happening.
  • Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation within an oppressed people, their crimes are widely recognised and condemned. The B&B isn't a journalistic outlet and we're not required to be impartial at all times, everyone understands that direct condemnation of the 7th attacks isn't required because we all know that everyone feels that way regardless of if we're saying it.

    The State of Israel on the other hand is and has been almost completely supported by Western governments, even though what they're doing to the Palestinians has for decades been widely described by human rights and legal organisations as an illegal occupation, apartheid, and certainly now forced transfer, collective punishment and genocide. That's why everyone is so focused on their crimes at the moment, because our governments are complicit in it and it needs to be said. Also Israel has by far the greatest agency to break the cycle, the onus is on them to do so.

    If you don't know anything about the history or context and have only started paying attention on the 7th I can see why you might be a little taken aback by some of what we and others are saying, but that's on you.
  • acemuzzy wrote:
    “Jews and Arabs, we will get through this together.”
    That's enough to get you started in Israel, it seems

    Context -
    Two activists from a Jewish-Arab peace movement were recently detained in Israel for putting up posters with a message that the police deemed to be offensive. The message was: “Jews and Arabs, we will get through this together.”

    The activists, members of Standing Together, had their posters confiscated, as well as T-shirts printed with peace slogans in Hebrew and Arabic.

    It was not an isolated incident. Across Israel, people are being detained, fired from their jobs, and even attacked for expressing sentiments interpreted by some as showing sympathy for Hamas after the group’s murderous attack on 7 October. The definition of pro-Hamas is often widened to include expressions of sympathy for the plight of Palestinian children trapped in Gaza, or calls for peace, especially if expressed in both Arabic and Hebrew.

    Last week, after 15 years of service at a Petah Tikva hospital, its director of the cardiac intensive care unit was suspended from his position.

    Abed Samara’s apparent offence was his profile picture on social media – a dove carrying an olive twig and a green flag emblazoned with the shahada, the Muslim declaration of faith: “There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.” He had adopted the picture last year, long before the Hamas attack, but it was nevertheless seen as somehow voicing support for the outrage.
     - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/22/an-atmosphere-of-fear-free-speech-under-threat-in-israel-activists-say
  • b0r1s
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    Israel has by far the greatest agency to break the cycle, the onus is on them to do so.

    This nails it.

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