Weird Stuff (tinfoil hat wearing goons only, please) - The Bear and Badger

poprock

Isn’t Paul Stamets the name of the engineer on Star Trek Discovery who works with the mycelial network?

superflyninja

GurtTractor wrote:

There's also the thing of perhaps we just haven't looked hard enough yet -

However, perhaps more importantly for now, even order-of-magnitude estimates of the SETI space searched to date are valuable because they rebut the pervasive misconception that SETI work to date has significantly “sharpened” the Fermi Paradox or proven so dispositive that SETI can be said to have “failed” to find what it seeks. We should be careful, however, not to let this result swing the pendulum of public perceptions of SETI too far or the other way by suggesting that the SETI haystack is so large that wecan never hope to find a needle. The whole haystack need only be searched if one needs to prove that there are zero needles—because technological life might spread through the Galaxy, and/or technological species might arise independently in many places, we might expect there to be agreat number of needles to be found. Also, our haystack definition included vast swaths of interstellar space where we have no particular reason to expect to find transmitters; humanity’s completeness to subsets of this haystack—for instance, for continuous, permanent transmissions from nearby stars—is many orders of magnitude higher.

Sourcey paper A more simple summary - https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/only-small-fraction-space-has-been-searched-aliens https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2018/10/02/into-the-cosmic-haystack/ -

Maybe, then, there is no such thing as an ‘eerie silence,’ or at least not one whose existence has been shown to be plausible. The matter seems theoretical until you realize it impacts practical concerns like SETI funding. If we assume that extraterrestrial civilizations do not exist because they have not visited us, then SETI is a wasteful exercise, its money better spent elsewhere. By the same token, some argue that because we have not yet had a SETI detection of an alien culture, we can rule out their existence, at least anywhere near us in the galaxy. What Wright wants to do is show that the conclusion is false, because given the size of the search space, SETI has barely begun. We need, then, to examine just how much of a search we have actually been able to mount. What interstellar beacons, for example, might we have missed because we lacked the resources to keep a constant eye on the same patch of sky?

I think there are definitely other advanced civilizations out there. Id bet 5 whole pounds on it. Im certain there are. I dont believe in the great filter either. Maybe it holds true for most civilisations but there are always exceptions.
I dont think we are advanced enough yet to be able to properly detect alien civilisations. To me, that is the simplest explanation. Of course, other elements are at play, civilisations may have come and gone, or are yet to be, but Ill eat my shorts if there is no advanced life out there.

I think searching for techno signatures of alien races should become part of the standard search pattern. Im not surprised SETI hasnt detected anything yet (or has it??? wow signal) and I wouldnt expect it to. SETI will seem pointless until it finds something.

EDIT: That interview with Christopher Mellon on Joe Rogan. FFS only at the end do I find out he used to be with To the Stars Academy. He sounded quite interesting too. Damn Tom Delonge.

Kow

poprock wrote:

Isn’t Paul Stamets the name of the engineer on Star Trek Discovery who works with the mycelial network?

Not being a total geek, I have no idea.

Diluted Dante

It is.

Makes sense I guess.

bad_hair_day

superflyninja wrote:

EDIT: That interview with Christopher Mellon on Joe Rogan. FFS only at the end do I find out he used to be with To the Stars Academy. He sounded quite interesting too. Damn Tom Delonge.

He knew and understood that you have to get the public interested to get Congress interested to circle back to the Defence dept to get them to take a look into UFOs.

Gremill

bad_hair_day wrote:

Morning, fellow weirdos.

Can’t get much more credible mainstream reporting than 60 minutes. It’s not a question if UFO’s are real but what are they?

That was a great watch - but where's the other 47 minutes? It was somewhat soiled by having Rubio and his fish face pop up at the end, but otherwise very compelling stuff.

bad_hair_day

It is rather.
That’s the format, normally the program is divided into three different news items. This week they covered facial recognition tech issues, UAPs and Rafael Nadal.

Gremill

Ah, ok.

bad_hair_day

The perception changes when there’s not a ‘mysterious’ music track accompanying these accounts. It used to bother me, but when you recognise nature documentaries do the same (if not to a greater extent) no one cries about that.

superflyninja

bad_hair_day wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

EDIT: That interview with Christopher Mellon on Joe Rogan. FFS only at the end do I find out he used to be with To the Stars Academy. He sounded quite interesting too. Damn Tom Delonge.

He knew and understood that you have to get the public interested to get Congress interested to circle back to the Defence dept to get them to take a look into UFOs.

I really enjoyed the interview and he made a lot of sense, its just the DeLonge association is an issue for me.

Yossarian

Just stumbled across this article, which put me onto this sceptical YouTube channel, which features this handy overview video:

Probably worth a watch.

bad_hair_day

Would help his analysis if West wasn’t just guessing.

Armitage_Shankburn

Lol. He's... GUESSING.

The weirdo aliens exist and they're visiting us guy says the other guy IS GUESSING

Yossarian

bad_hair_day wrote:

Would help his analysis if West wasn’t just guessing.

The video I posted had nothing to do with the Nimitz encounter?

Yossarian

Also, as an aside, amusing to have a video accusing him of guessing made by an Egyptologist.

bad_hair_day

Yossarian wrote:

The video I posted had nothing to do with the Nimitz encounter?

One of the clips West mentions was the FLIR footage from the Nimitz encounters.

djchump

I'd posted some links to Mick West article and videos before (who is BTW an OG Neversoft gamedev who worked on the original Tony Hawks games, so has some bonafides when it comes to that kind of 3D maths) - where he debunks some of the claims about "this object is large, far away, low to the ground and moving extremely fast!" with the jet's own data that is visible in the source videos to figure out the angles and distances using some simple 3D maths to show that no, it wasn't close to the ground, it was halfway between the ground and the jet's altitude and hence not moving fast, but at very boring, normal wind speed. (hence, what do we know that bounces IR very well but not radar, because it's too small for radar returns, and travels happily along with the wind? ooh, lemme guess.... an ALIEN balloon!)

But obviously, this was dismissed as "LOL KEYBOARD WARRIOR THINKS HE KNOWS MATHS BETTER THAN CIA AND FIGHTER PILOTS HE'S WRONG!". The maths works out though, in that video it was clearly a case of visuals being a bit confusing due to the high zoom/very narrow camera field of view.

bad_hair_day

Yossarian wrote:

Also, as an aside, amusing to have a video accusing him of guessing made by an Egyptologist.

He seems more confident in the assessment of what the correlated systems do than West is.

djchump wrote:

...in that video it was clearly a case of visuals being a bit confusing due to the high zoom/very narrow camera field of view.

The ‘gofast’ clip? That’s a convincing explanation of what’s happening, right enough.

Yossarian

bad_hair_day wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

The video I posted had nothing to do with the Nimitz encounter?

One of the clips West mentions was the FLIR footage from the Nimitz encounters.

My mistake.

bad_hair_day wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Also, as an aside, amusing to have a video accusing him of guessing made by an Egyptologist.

He seems more confident in the assessment of what the correlated systems do than West is.

UFO believers tend to be very confident in their beliefs.

mk64

long story short on the video

the plane things have special internwebs things which mean that the radar which picked up the tictac would also have been picked up on the other planez screens and also the warplanez screens. But NO ONE SAID ANYTHING

bad_hair_day

bad_hair_day wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Also, as an aside, amusing to have a video accusing him of guessing made by an Egyptologist.

He seems more confident in the assessment of what the correlated systems do than West is.

Yossarian wrote:

UFO believers tend to be very confident in their beliefs.

He didn’t mention he was a ‘believer’ in the analysis, and the object is unidentified.

Yossarian

Incidentally, there is a response to that video from West here:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-that-the-nimitz-flir1-object-could-not-be-a-plane-because-it-would-have-been-identified.11726/

There’s a bit more detail at the link, but the main argument is this:

This all hinges on one very important assumption, "6) FLIR was not a lucky catch. It was slaved to the radar." The problem I have with this is that the radar was not working - in that it was unable to lock onto the object, and was giving very inconsistent numbers for it. How then was it able to point the ATFLIR with 100% accuracy in the right direction, within 1% horizontally and vertically?

It it was an F-18, then obviously it would have been on the datalink. But the question that might invalidate all the other points is: was the return on Underwood's radar that he was trying to lock onto (and, it is claimed, designated as a target) the same thing that showed up on the ATFLIR. Because if it wasn't, then the other six points are moot.

bad_hair_day

mk64 wrote:

long story short on the video

the plane things have special internwebs things which mean that the radar which picked up the tictac would also have been picked up on the other planez screens and also the warplanez screens. But NO ONE SAID ANYTHING

The FLIR clip has no audio. Radar ops on the U.S.S. Princeton had tracked the object previously at the pilots training area.

Yossarian

bad_hair_day wrote:

bad_hair_day wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Also, as an aside, amusing to have a video accusing him of guessing made by an Egyptologist.

He seems more confident in the assessment of what the correlated systems do than West is.

Yossarian wrote:

UFO believers tend to be very confident in their beliefs.

He didn’t mention he was a ‘believer’ in the analysis, and the object is unidentified.

Uh huh.

https://twitter.com/alpha_check/status/1390780425170268169?s=20

b0r1s

Question for everyone on the UFO thing and that alien civilisations have to be out there and have capability for interstellar travel.

Could a reason why we have no direct proof of aliens visiting us is nothing to do with Fermi etc but also that they evolved without needing or wanting an industrial revolution? Perhaps the normal way for life to evolve is actually to become more in tune with your mental and spiritual state and living with your planet rather than trying to kill it then move on.

If aliens on other planets are telling horror stories to their kids it’s probably about the evil race that destroy planets before trying to colonise others and do the same over and over again.

Perhaps ships and the desire to travel comes back to the Matrix idea that we are more like a disease or parasite and need to find a new host every million years?

bad_hair_day

Yossarian wrote:

Incidentally, there is a response to that video from West here:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-that-the-nimitz-flir1-object-could-not-be-a-plane-because-it-would-have-been-identified.11726/

There’s a bit more detail at the link, but the main argument is this:

This all hinges on one very important assumption, "6) FLIR was not a lucky catch. It was slaved to the radar." The problem I have with this is that the radar was not working - in that it was unable to lock onto the object, and was giving very inconsistent numbers for it. How then was it able to point the ATFLIR with 100% accuracy in the right direction, within 1% horizontally and vertically?

It it was an F-18, then obviously it would have been on the datalink. But the question that might invalidate all the other points is: was the return on Underwood's radar that he was trying to lock onto (and, it is claimed, designated as a target) the same thing that showed up on the ATFLIR. Because if it wasn't, then the other six points are moot.

The object had been tracked in the area by the battle group, not just Underwood’s F18, that how he knew where to look and was 20 miles away when it took off. The reason he couldn’t get a positive lock (on a commercial aircraft with no transponder?) was it was actively jamming. You’d hope the leader of a fighter training exercise could tell if the object was a 737 or not.

superflyninja

b0r1s wrote:

Question for everyone on the UFO thing and that alien civilisations have to be out there and have capability for interstellar travel. Could a reason why we have no direct proof of aliens visiting us is nothing to do with Fermi etc but also that they evolved without needing or wanting an industrial revolution? Perhaps the normal way for life to evolve is actually to become more in tune with your mental and spiritual state and living with your planet rather than trying to kill it then move on. If aliens on other planets are telling horror stories to their kids it’s probably about the evil race that destroy planets before trying to colonise others and do the same over and over again. Perhaps ships and the desire to travel comes back to the Matrix idea that we are more like a disease or parasite and need to find a new host every million years?

Its an interesting thought and im sure its correct in some cases. Look as us now, we had the industrial revolution and are quickly realising that maybe we shouldnt be fucking up the planet. We are moving to renewable energy and greener ways to live etc. So yeah I can see a path where we clean up our act and also can see the possibility that some alien cultures did evolve and skip the industrial age as you suggest. Though I think for every green,hippy civilisation there is a Chinese techno equivalent.

If there are interstellar races out there, its clear that radio transmission is not fast enough for communication across light years. I think there are alternatives that are being used and we just dont know about it. Imagine a neanderthal in New York, unknowingly bombarded by a multitude of signals. He doesnt know the signals are even there, he sees no smoke signals or hears no drums so he thinks there is nothing communicating in the city.

Yossarian

bad_hair_day wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Incidentally, there is a response to that video from West here:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/claim-that-the-nimitz-flir1-object-could-not-be-a-plane-because-it-would-have-been-identified.11726/

There’s a bit more detail at the link, but the main argument is this:

This all hinges on one very important assumption, "6) FLIR was not a lucky catch. It was slaved to the radar." The problem I have with this is that the radar was not working - in that it was unable to lock onto the object, and was giving very inconsistent numbers for it. How then was it able to point the ATFLIR with 100% accuracy in the right direction, within 1% horizontally and vertically?

It it was an F-18, then obviously it would have been on the datalink. But the question that might invalidate all the other points is: was the return on Underwood's radar that he was trying to lock onto (and, it is claimed, designated as a target) the same thing that showed up on the ATFLIR. Because if it wasn't, then the other six points are moot.

The object had been tracked in the area by the battle group, not just Underwood’s F18, that how he knew where to look and was 20 miles away when it took off.

So someone else as a radar lock that had an unambiguous location? The point is that if they can’t be 100% sure where the object is located, is it not possible that you could assume that a different object near (at least by line of sight) to the one that you’re searching for is the object?

The reason he couldn’t get a positive lock (on a commercial aircraft with no transponder?) was it was actively jamming.

The argument is that he may not have got a lock on one object for who knows what reason, then saw a different one.

You’d hope the leader of a fighter training exercise could tell if the object was a 737 or not.

Humans are fallible.

Also, through West, I discovered this:

https://twitter.com/MickWest/status/1393942527019868166

Seems the other pilot from Nimitz doesn’t believe these are alien.

b0r1s

I haven’t watched the whole 60 minutes video. But surely a red flag is that fucking goatee or whatever it is on his chin?

Yossarian

He’s the evil twin.

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