Diluted Dante wrote:

If Activisions plan was to use a quiet release schedule, this would have dropped in the first half of the year, like Titanfall.

I think that the argument is more that they were always going to release in September, but they presumed for most of the development time that they'd be up against some stiff competition and so worked as hard as they could to create the best game possible. At some point in 2014, someone at Activision looked at the release schedule for September and realised that there wasn't as much competition as expected, so they went down to Bungie and demanded that they rip content out of the game so it could be sold as DLC. The DLC which had been planned and budgeted for was then cancelled. The only thing that's currently unclear is why this was done, I'm going to presume that it's so that the Activision exec who made the decision could use the money saved for coke and hookers.

Is that about right, Chalice?

Djornson wrote:

So Destiny has a deliberate lack of content in order to make more money from DLC and rewards time spent playing over genuine skill. True. But, that's true of 90% of games, so let's not discuss it as if it's specific to Destiny. That's not something we can change, especially those of us who bought the game, that's business modelling.

Not really.
Its more like any business would do, they used as few materials and man hours as possible to fulfil a contract so as to make as much money as possible.
Which is as you say, just business modelling.

Bungies contract with Activision included a bonus clause dependent on review scores. Why would you rip the game apart to sell as DLC, when you could rake in the money by getting the higher score?

It's worth saying, I heard and posted about rumours of Activision meddling in the game and causing key staff to leave back before O'Donnell announced his departure. This was from a source who I'd trust to have some good information.

Imho, given that the game was behind in development, it's entirely possible that finished sections of the game were removed to be used as the DLC, because there was no hope of the originally planned DLC being able to completed in time to meet it's release date. 

The decision to do this (if that's what happened) will probably have been made by Bungie, but it will probably have been based on payment clauses from Activation for completion of milestone deliverables within the development programme.

I like my thing where I get told how wrong I am about stuff.

My source on the Activision thing is an industry insider. Well, reasonably highly-placed industry journo at least.

Liveinadive wrote:

Well this has descended into precisely not what the thread was supposed to be about. Came into suggest an alternate to numbered levelling but not getting caught up in this shit storm of shit.

Well it's not a shit storm of shit, it's just an interesting discussion with a few people getting a bit OTT. 

Give us your alternatives sir please do. Get this thread back on track.

Liveinadive wrote:

Well this has descended into precisely not what the thread was supposed to be about.

Nah this is the nub of it. Lack of content is all I hear about this game, over and over again. It's the game's main problem as far as I can make out.

I'm quite enjoying a read through the grimoire cards on bungie.net right now.  Quite interesting reading about the breakdown of Vex society.  Wish it was in the game in a ME-style codex thing though.

pantyfire wrote:

Djornson wrote:

So Destiny has a deliberate lack of content in order to make more money from DLC and rewards time spent playing over genuine skill. True. But, that's true of 90% of games, so let's not discuss it as if it's specific to Destiny. That's not something we can change, especially those of us who bought the game, that's business modelling.

Not really. Its more like any business would do, they used as few materials and man hours as possible to fulfil a contract so as to make as much money as possible. Which is as you say, just business modelling.

Yeah that's a better way of putting it. 

To address the other points, why does it matter if content was cut of it was always planned as DLC? 

When making a game you want to do 2 things, make as much money as possible from initial sales and make as much money as possible from DLC.

I guess you have to balance what you include originally to achieve the 1st and the 2nd as best as possible.

Anyway we should all stop repeating this bullshit and talk about specific features we would like added to/changed in Destiny.

Gonzo wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Perhaps, but I presume that your book also says that Paul McCartney died before the recording of Abbey Road and was replaced by a lookalike.

I find this "conspiracy nut" line to be fascetious and unhelpful. It is the same line used to shut down argument in a million other fields. Kindly stop drumming on about that. Conspiracies have happened many times in the past, provably, so objecting to something by asserting it alleges a "conspiracy" is a logical fallacy. Videogame companies have cut content planned for release in order to include it in post-release dlc. It is a thing. It is not an unthinkable outrage. Given the pricing of dlc in destiny, and the limited content on release compared to pre-release material from bungie, it is a fair criticism. Yoss, you are coming across as a blinkered fanboy in the davie digi / ubermad mould, and the tone of this destiny debate is not dissimilar to the next gen thred of ultimate embarrassment. Kindly moderate your conduct.

So irony.

Diluted Dante wrote:

Bungies contract with Activision included a bonus clause dependent on review scores. Why would you rip the game apart to sell as DLC, when you could rake in the money by getting the higher score?

Quite. People seem to be completely ignoring that contract, which was aired publicly long before launch.

I've no doubt that the game isn't exactly as originally planned, I doubt many are and this one has obviously had a difficult development process. Bobby Kotick in the background taking things out to sell later doesn't make any sense at all, even if it is the sort of idea that gamers on the internet love.

Djornson wrote:

So Destiny has a deliberate lack of content in order to make more money from DLC and rewards time spent playing over genuine skill. True. But, that's true of 90% of games, so let's not discuss it as if it's specific to Destiny. That's not something we can change, especially those of us who bought the game, that's business modelling.

Not really. Its more like any business would do, they used as few materials and man hours as possible to fulfil a contract so as to make as much money as possible. Which is as you say, just business modelling.

Yeah that's a better way of putting it.  To address the other points, why does it matter if content was cut of it was always planned as DLC?  When making a game you want to do 2 things, make as much money as possible from initial sales and make as much money as possible from DLC. I guess you have to balance what you include originally to achieve the 1st and the 2nd as best as possible. Anyway we should all stop repeating this bullshit and talk about specific features we would like added to/changed in Destiny.

I hypothesise that we've seen a shift in attitudes in game development since the success of the PS1 and the market it courted.
I think traditionally we view game creators as people creating games because they love them and want other people to love them, so traditionally devs have through a matter of pride and drive released the absolute best game they could, often heaped in content and busting at the seams.
But with the increased popularity of the industry comes the big money and big money doesn't like artists, it never has. They are flighty and can't be trusted with huge amounts of money, so there's been a shift in management and business practices towards a more traditional business style.
The industry still has the idealists and the creatives in it otherwise it couldn't produce anything but its increasingly coming under the influence of big business practices.

Forgive me but I've just finished watching Bitter Lake - I might go and get some found archive footage to accompany this post.

Big business is the fuck.