Retro Club - 8 & 16-bit puzzlers - The Bear and Badger

Moot_Geeza

I watched a speedrun and read up a bit more. It has warps apparently (not in this vid, obvs), which is nice.

This sort of sums up what I like/don't about it. I appreciate what it's doing, but executing what this guy does, with consistency, looks near impossible to me

....the controls are okay, but they lack finesse (unless my pad/emulation is to blame), which is where my appreciate vs enjoy thing comes in when playing it for the first time as a retro title. I'd have massive problems replicating even tiny parts of this vid successfully, whereas with something like Super Mario Bros I could splice together a good looking run from a long session, even though I've never been particularly good at that game. It strikes me as something that was very good at the time, but also very of its time now. Not sure if I'm waffling or not, I'm in a rush.

retroking1981

Quite rare for us to disagree so strongly but fair play mate, thanks for the write up.

Eric

My GXD has mysteriously kicked back into life and started to take charge again (software issue) so I'm back in. I can only find a mame version of this one.

davyK

Never had control issues with Solomon's Key but that was on original hardware.

Moot_Geeza

You're up Davy, forgot to update this yesterday.

I'm going to award Solomon's Key a not-digging-it 55% as a first time retro experience, and 84% when pretending it's 1986.

davyK

OK.

Time to go back to the arcade for a spell. Was playing this a wee while back on my PS2 in the Capcom Collection. But this is easily MAME-able.

Black Tiger Capcom , 1987.

Platforming shooty game that elevates itself above the norm for reasons I can't actually explain. Collect gold and power up your armour and weapons as the levels become slightly mazey. Lots-a-fun.

JonB

Ooh. I was thinking of picking that myself. I have it on Capcom Classics again.

I think it's one of the arcade games from that era that still holds up really well today. It can seem cheap at first, but if you move forward carefully it's perfectly possible to avoid traps and sudden attacks.

Think I've even done reasonably well on a 1 credit run before. Might see if I can beat my high score at least.

JonB

In case anyone is remotely interested, my high score is 181500.

davyK

We did some 2600 games a while back and having some score chasing added to it. Helps with the simpler arcade games.

Will see what I can do about that score...

JonB

Had a couple of 1 credit goes earlier. Got towards the end of level 2 first time, and about halfway through level 3 the next. Nowhere near my top score though - I think I've got to level 6 before.

I suppose it's quite like Ghouls 'n' Ghosts in a way. You need to learn and remember where things are to get through unscathed, and you have to be careful with jumping. But then the checkpoints are far more friendly and the bosses quite straightforward. It doesn't have the variety between levels of GnG, but the multiple routes through levels are more interesting. I've always preferred it overall.

davyK

Aye. end of level 2 is what I managed on 1 credit.

You have to move slowly - rushing in means insta-death which some might not like. But I find it enjoyable.

Moot_Geeza

I got a feel for this with save states earlier in the week, will have a go without cheating tomorrow. Seems pretty good on first impression.

JonB

davyK wrote:

You have to move slowly - rushing in means insta-death which some might not like.

But not too slowly, else the time limit can get you. It's a fine line.

JonB

Also, pro tip. Hit the wall to your left at the start of the game for a little bonus.

retroking1981

Black Tiger (Arcade)

Gave this a little play and got to the boss on level 4, seems to suffer from what most arcade games of the era do in that its coin guzzlingly hard.

I was playing on the PS3 Capcom Arcade Cabinet so was spamming credits giving me infinite continues but I just couldn't beat that boss.

Maybe I could have searched for more zanny coins to upgrade my armour and weapons but taking it slowly goes at odds with the time limit which was something I didn't like about Solomon's Key too. It makes sense in some games but it just feels like a hang up of tradition in others, like having lives in Sonic Mania or any Super Mario game.

It's not a bad game, especially for the time but not one for me.

2/5

JonB

Time limits are kind of inevitable on arcade games like this. Stopped people spending too long on them.

As for difficulty, it's certainly there but I don't think there are any harsh spikes. The more you play the better you get. But, if you want to get far there's an onus on doing all the optional dungeon stages in each level to get extra cash and buying weapon upgrades (which you keep even when you continue). Most levels also have hidden armour that will keep you topped up for the bosses.

This is one of the things I like about it - it's not as straightforward as it seems as there are tricks and strategies that can make a difference. A great old school arcade game where you'd learn from watching other people and passing on tips to each other.

davyK

Black Tiger grew on me. When I first played it I found it a bit ho-hum. But it was something I kept going back to now and again - especially when I was messing about with MAME ROM sets.

That's not a great quality to have for an arcade game which needs to grab you from the off - which is probably why it isn't that well known - I certainly hadn't heard of it until I tried the ROM out.

Unlike Ghouls & Ghosts in which you have to keep moving to avoid being over run you can clear out areas so it has a different feel. But the time limits force you along so getting that balance right and memorising the levels are key to it. A bit of a sleeper hit for me.

retroking1981

I'll give it another go before the deadline and see if it grows on me.

davyK

Your opinion is probably accurate enough. The game is no great shakes in the originality stakes but I like the look of it.

There is something about jumping and grabbing onto vertical structures that I enjoy - I first encountered that in Chuckie Egg. It embues the feeling of freedom; or at least the illusion of it.

The game has that Capcom oddness of the day and as I still suffer 1 credit playing even on an emulator I still enjoy it. Credit feeding an arcade game gives me an empty feeling....

Moot_Geeza

Gave this another go, it's pretty good as an arcade game, I would've definitely played this a fair bit if they'd had it at the St. Mary's Bay caravan park. Taking your time vs rushing it works well enough, I'd imagine far better if I'd actually got good at it. The enemies that always take a couple more hits than you can get in before having to jump out the way are annoying, especially when two are rushing you, but obvs that's the point. I never lasted long without save states, but I did do a little better the second time I sat down with it.

69% as a first time retro play, 77% at the time. It's not something I really clicked with but I didn't dislike it. The bosses are awful though. Perhaps there was a pattern I kept missing, but they had a touch of 'four credits to progress fella' about them, TNMT style.

Jon's up.

retroking1981

Forgot to say I gave this another go and completed it. Will give a little update to my review later.

JonB

Moot_Geeza wrote:

The bosses are awful though. Perhaps there was a pattern I kept missing, but they had a touch of 'four credits to progress fella' about them, TNMT style.

They're pretty lame for the most part. Almost an afterthought. No need to get hit at all by the first couple, if you stay back. After that the onus is probably more on having plenty of armour when you get there.

Moot_Geeza wrote:

Jon's up.

OK. No idea atm. Will have a think.

davyK

Agree about the bosses. Disappointing after the entertaining enemy design in the levels.

retroking1981

The Dragons are actually ok, there is a pattern. The rest are shit though, especially the Demon (?) who looks suspiciously like that Demon from GnG.

retroking1981

retroking1981 wrote:

Black Tiger (Arcade) Gave this a little play and got to the boss on level 4, seems to suffer from what most arcade games of the era do in that its coin guzzlingly hard. I was playing on the PS3 Capcom Arcade Cabinet so was spamming credits giving me infinite continues but I just couldn't beat that boss. Maybe I could have searched for more zanny coins to upgrade my armour and weapons but taking it slowly goes at odds with the time limit which was something I didn't like about Solomon's Key too. It makes sense in some games but it just feels like a hang up of tradition in others, like having lives in Sonic Mania or any Super Mario game. It's not a bad game, especially for the time but not one for me. 2/5

Upon completing I'm gonna stick with the same score, even though I enjoyed it a tad more.

I got to a point where I had the weapon fully upgraded and went to upgrade the armour, but that downgrades to the default level when you die.

This made zanny coin hunting ultimately redundant, I think keeping the weapon and armour upgrades on each level but then taking them back off you at the start of the next would have improved this.

I know this might be part and parcel of arcade games but like moot said it just feels like a coin guzzler because of it. I think arcade games struggled to get the right balance with A-B games like this back then.

Not a horrible game, I had fun with it in parts and the music was very good imo, but it won't be one I ever return to.

JonB

I thought you never lost weapon upgrades?

retroking1981

Weapon you don't armour you do.

JonB

Right, yeah, that's what I thought. Misread your post.

Means you need to concentrate on upgrading the weapon as quickly as possible to give yourself an easier time even if you die. There are bits of armour hidden in some levels too.

JonB

Anyway, I need to think of another game.

retroking1981

I probably could have made that clearer tbf.

Yeah I found a couple of upgrades, vitality right? Or is that something different?

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