SteamBox aka Steamy Gabecube aka SteamOS - The Bear and Badger

Air_Hair_Lair

True, No Gears woould be a bit impossible... but then we are yet to see where that is going Cliffy B-less

[Deleted User]

TRU DAT WOOT!

LazyGunn

Well the engine Gears was made with has Linux options so something can fill its shoes

Mod74

Air_Hair_Lair wrote:

If the Steam box does everything I'm hearing about, I'll be converting straight over to it. Making it upgradable with a base level for games could be genious. Steams online system trumps pretty much any other at the moment, if it stays true to that whilst "consolising" the concept my living room will smile a 1000 smiles.

Whilst that's mostly true, the problem is the other systems exist, not that they're worse.

No Ubi games in Steam without Uplay (bye bye Ass Creed and Watchdogs). No EA games full stop (bye bye Crysis 3 and Battlefield 4).

If Valve goes Linux and Ubi & EA don't then you're fucked. If Valve stay Windows you're still not getting some major games within the 'consolefied' experience.

A SteamBox would have been absolutely killer 4/5 years ago. It's a bit late to the party now.

Air_Hair_Lair

I disagree that it's late to the party, if anything a change will be refreshing.Â The original Xbox was met with much scepticism, but they managed to join the race.Â I do agree that no EA games and Uplay could cause problems, but at the moment I have no idea what they intend to propose.Â To me it sounds like it'll be a lot more open a system for developers, just a few of them want to hold on to their current monopolies.

M0stly harm13ss

If there is a return on investment that is in line with publisher strategies then they will sell on the Steambox. Full Stop.

I_R

If it's open and sells enough, EA would probably stick Origin on it, but that's taking it back to being a PC style experience on your telly rather than an accessible console. Not that I think that's a problem given the likely audience.

Mod74

I think you're all letting your imaginations get away from you. Newell is a clever man, not an idiot. He knows everything is too entrenched and invested to shake things up or go toe to toe with the big three.

It's the same reason you'll never see an Apple iTV. (or you'll never see one that's the magical unification of content the fantasists are dreaming of)

Air_Hair_Lair

Probably are, but I can't help but be excited about the prospect.Â I'll certainly be keeping an eye on this one.

dynamiteReady

Mod74 wrote:

Watchdogs...

You know, I was just thinking about this year's E3 presentation, and the vague rumours about what that live demo was running on... But yeah, Can't really tie that to the whole Steambox rumour mill.Â

But wouldn't that be a neat start for the Linux migration project?

hunk

RamSteelwood wrote:

You know, despite all the extra cool futuristic shit that Valve could potentially do, the mere prospect of a well priced, hackable gaming machine, with concessions to the open source community I think, is more than cool enough. Fuck it. Like you've just said, if worse comes to worse, and it folds, just load Windows or OSX on it. And if they've got their minds right on this, then it should be something that you can cart about in a rucksack, without having to fear for it's fragility. Foolproof WLAN is also a must. Believe me. This thing can rule... But yes, it can also fold like a crap deckchair...

Out of interest, how do people expect this to compare to OUYA? More competent developers, sounder business model, more business might, probable extra gizmos... But there's definitely a bit of an overlap. But if it is an 'hackable gaming machine' that's 'portable' you're after - how does this compare - and what's wrong with a laptop (or PSP for that matter!)? I'm dubious about this and OUYA to be honest: think they'll be fun but not obviously competitive with PC or Console. So worth a few bucks but probably not half a grand. Too early to say for sure though, given its all speculation!

i was just thinking the same think about the possible overlap between OUYA and a possible steambox...to the point i got a little crazy and thought "what if the linux stuff is gone and instead they built it on an Android platform?"...literally take the idea of OUYA and then valve-it! Â it might mean valve have to get in bed with google, but maybe they see that as better than microsoft? Â so you'd get a massively powerful android box, customised UI with Steam integrated, fixed hardware for optimizing drivers/game performance etc, and access to the play store so you instantly have access to a large catalogue of (admittedly mostly twee/tosh/unsuitable) stuff. that would also give them a bigger existing market to tap into in the form of all the android phone users..."when you next upgrade your PC, buy a steambox instead and it will magically tie up to your android phone and give you access to the steam gaming platform, home media player, yadda yadda"

Unlikely as Android is essentially an ARM version of Linux. I think Valve will go for x86 architecture which means full blown Linux, if only to get the most out of current/next gen hardware. Their controller also hints to hardcore titles and not casual (aka smartphone) titles.

beano

I don't know why if I tested a game in Wine on linux and it worked after asking some legal boffins why I wouldn't release it to launch using Wine through SteamOS/GDE. That at least opens up a back catalogue that includes LA Noire capably running on linux. And likewise, why not dual boot?

However I am more inclined to think they will have a difficult time getting people to spend double on a console for for XBLA games. Not thinking that the current offering on linux from steam is anything but a moot point. Developing with OpenGL and Unity is more attractive to games designers than DX in therms of overheads and in relative terms of how easy it is to push iterations in a small team. A Steambox is exactly the kind of thing that will iron out the maintenance and upgrading of both these development stacks. But again, gaming platform is also a moot point as has been extensively pointed out along with points about development.

I can't see an Android base OS. Google would have to get cracking on Android for x86 which is what they should do and drop ChromeOS. What I can see them doing is perhaps taking the *nix kernel and creating a similar way of launching apps in sandboxed virtual machines. Perhaps even a similar application lifecycle. Surely improving the likelyhood of launching cross-platform titles too.

I certainly hope it finds its place in the market and whatever, like the OUYA if it doesn't take off I've still got hardware that has other options than what it came with.

Open FTW.

dynamiteReady

beano wrote:

Google would have to get cracking on Android for x86 which is what they should do and drop ChromeOS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android-x86

Well... Someone already has.

But why, really?

To qualify that Apple TV runs on a modded version on OSX, not iOS.Â
Edit - No. Wait... It does run on iOS. They changed the operating system after the first iteration.

That said, where OSX and Linux are very closely related, Android and Linux share the same kernel, but Android has an extra two layers of abstraction above the base kernel, where OSX and a regular Linux distro like Ubuntu only has one.

I can imagine this Steambox being lighter still (one layer above the kernel, but optimised to fuck), but still familiar enough to developers.

beano

Google still need to concentrate on selling chromebooks with android is what I am saying. Not relying onÂ derivs. Similarly Android x86 needs the same levels of maintenance and upgrade as OpenGL. Android is linux for phone components at best.

Essentially we know it won't be a minWin kernel.

It's a reasonable assumption of Valve to be creating their own custom *nix kernel and GDE. They filled both the kernel developer and hardware engineer roles that they advertised in bulk with a load of other obvious roles that revealed their hand time ago.Â

Unsurprising they are trying to hire a psychologist these days. Who can program C++. Valve

Â .

hunk

Steambox to run on Android is a bit pointless as Valve (obviously) wants its games to run on x86 hardware,
Android is ARM based Linux optimised for touch input.
Why bother porting Android to x86 when you already have the original Linux? Does not compute.

Unless they want to tap into the google ecosystem but why bother as the steam one will do fine for a console?

Mod74

"Tap into Google", haha, good one.

I look forward to seeing how Gabe explains away his "OMG Win8 isn't open!" bleats and reaction to it by releasing a box where you can only buy mainstream games from one (his) vendor.

hunk

Is this about open vs closed again?
It sure does look like MS is going the way of a certain fruit company.....
Which doesn't leave much room for Steam in the main spotlight on the PC platform.
What if MS decides to really develop Live into a unified platform for xbox and pc? They failed the first time around but if they really wanted, what's to stop them from crushing Valve in the pc online gaming space?Â

I think Valve's doing the right thing making Steam multiplatform and not putting their eggs into 1 basket betting on one platform. Sure their main focus will shift from pc to linux but at least they won't be at the mercy of a major rival. Even if Gabe's a bit contradictory in his wording on the matter.

M0stly harm13ss

Mod74 wrote:

"Tap into Google", haha, good one. I look forward to seeing how Gabe explains away his "OMG Win8 isn't open!" bleats and reaction to it by releasing a box where you can only buy mainstream games from one (his) vendor.

Gabe will say he was forced down this route by the evil MS to keep Valve and Steam alive, and people will agree 'cos they love the big man, and they will throw flowers wheresoever he walks.

beano

Basically yeah, he's like a more capable Molyneux.

Mod74

You know how Gabe hates Win8 etc wah wah etc? Let's have a look at what the top paid app on the store is under Games.

Oh, it's one that lets users pin links to Steam games to the Start screen. AND THAT'S IT.

Hopefully his petulance has made some random German coder a nice pile of cash.

hunk

Haha, which reminds me, I still need to upgrade to windows 8.
Any stability issues with steam and games?
Is steam downloadable from the appmarket?

Mod74

I haven't had any issues with games or Steam. Running the latest Nvidia betas caused a botched install I had to rollback but that comes with beta territory.

Steam isn't downloadable from the app store. I'm not sure it ever could be as the way file storage is handled is very tightly controlled. I suspect there's a rule about Apps that sell other things and wanting a cut from them those sales as well like Apple have. Which goes to the crux of Gabe's problem. (fuck all to do with openness, I'll underline again).

monkey

That's exactly it. If the Windows Store didn't want a cut from in-app sales (i.e. every game sale on Steam), I don't know if we'd be seeing this SteamBox. I definitely don't think we'd be seeing a Linux Steam Box.Â

It's fair enough really. If it's the same as Apple, it's a 30% cut from gross revenue just to carry on trading (through the Metro / Modern thing anyway).

Mod74

Ubuntu charge 20% to sell through their App store. And bill chargebacks separately. Suck on that Gabe!

dynamiteReady

Mod74 wrote:

(fuck all to do with openness, I'll underline again).

No. Not just in the price of games and the channel of distribution, but mostly the tools used to make them...

Once enough people have taken to developing on Linux (using cross platform tools), and once enough consumers understand the difference, the graphics card companies like Nvidia (sound card companies and the like too) will slowly stop supporting DirectX, and switch to designing hardware that will run Open(X) optimally (Khronos have many media stack libraries).

Apple, for one, will be very happy to see this happen... They've had to deal with second rate consumer level graphics cards for years (but not highend ones... High end graphic parts target OpenGl almost exclusively... Do you see?) and will happily give Valve some breathing room to expand Steam (apparently the current CEO of Apple met Gabe - But I don't really care about that story).

Once you get to the point where it's both feasible and profitable to create games using open source tools, and have them run on Windows, Linux and OSX without a performance hit... Well... That means better games for people on Windows, Apple, Linux...Â

Fuck it.

Even Nintendo, Sony, CommodoreÂ (insertÂ favouriteÂ platform vendor here)Â consumers too ...

And that's all before even considering some of the other shit that Valve actually appear keen to do...

Mod74

Steam has been around for 9 years. They only gave a flying fuck about Linux or its users the MS decided to go a little bit near his cash cow.

He was more than happy for MS to develop an OS and users to pay for it when it didn't pose any threat to his cash flow. Now it does he's suddenly grown a conscience. Get tae fuck.

You think a small (albiet rich) game developer that only realised they were going to have to support Linux in the last year is going to crank out a hardware and software solution then get an entire industry to switch its tool base? Dream on.

monkey

Anyone got any idea what happens with the PS3 / 360 split at the moment? PS3 doesn't support DirectX (amirite?) so presumably there's quite a lot of triple As getting rolled out either entirely in OpenGL or with a DirectX / OpenGL split as it stands.

I don't really know how much of work is involved in converting from one API to another. There must be a lot of similarities between them both.

Mod74

PS3 doesn't actually use OpenGL, it emulates it. One assumes the PS4 will have to support it properly. Or they pay cash monies to MS.

dynamiteReady

Mod74 wrote:

You think a small (albiet rich) game developer that only realised they were going to have to support Linux in the last year is going to crank out a hardware and software solution then get an entire industry to switch its tool base? Dream on.

It's all the Apple and mobile hardware flying about that's making this viable. As for your PS3 comment, DJ Chump could probably answer that. But from what I understand, the PS3 can run OpenGL(ES) commands...

As can the Wii U (apparently).

hunk

This walled garden thing is getting out of hand....
I know consoles are always walled garden but I don't feel desktop OS'es should go down that path.Â

Might upgrade my pc to windows 8 in the beginning next year.Â
Don't really fancy doing a clean install though, it's a pain reinstalling everything again.

Hope the touchpad works similar to MacOSX Â 'cause I hate broken touchpads.

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