If its the looks mainly, then that doesnt make the game shit. If that were the case, then there would hardly be any good games out there. One of your favourites, Trials HD, looks like dog poo for example. But it plays amazingly well.

Edit: @DS. Fucking page turn.

hylian_elf wrote:

If its the looks mainly, then that doesnt make the game shit. If that were the case, then there would hardly be any good games out there. One of your favourites, Trials HD, looks like dog poo for example. But it plays amazingly well. Edit: @DS. Fucking page turn.

Not just looks, as Tempy said, tone. If a game was two white squares, but it drew me in, I'd be all over it. Graffix are/were/I forget nice.

I did the whole of GoW 3 without blocking, because fuck blocking.

Wasting your time, Tempy. They've made up their mind. Just like there's no telling me that CoD is a good game. It's not.

I have, twice.

World of Agony is a probably a J-metal band or album or self-titled album.

Christ

Elmlea wrote:

Liveinadive wrote:

Why when the Bayonetta debate arises does everyone pro-Bayonetta fall back on the mechanics as a defence for the game yet never address the fact the presentation is a wet dream for the type of person who has a Hello Kitty shaped rucksack, wears goggles and smells spicy.

That's nicely put.  Is this the sort of thing that should be taken into account for reviews?

It should be.

If there was a game called "The busy world of Jake and Dinos Chapman", that had the best gameplay ever but....

These guys were the co-op protagonists


And all the enemies were...



It would be mentioned at least twice in a review. It would also be only slightly less abhorrent compared to Bayonetta.

Right, well. As I've said before, overall I don't like the overall tone of Bayonetta. I haven't an issue with the visuals on a whole, at all. It's all typical Judeo-Christian symbolism, which the Japanese love, wrapped up within Platinum's bizarre acid drenched camp tones. Does it grate when Bayonetta does her weave attacks and pulls a stupid pose? Yes. Do I care? No, because it happens very rarely and i'm too far into the zone, or whatever you'd call it, to give a shit.

I think the environments (which in Vigrid are clearly inspired by Gaudi's work in Barcelona) and the enemy designs are fucking brilliant in their absurdity. A giant cherubs head, upside down with the physiology of a dragon adorned with gold and ivory blended into is, to me, wonderful. I'd take that kind of philosophy towards enemy design over any number of Locusts or whatever.

Now obviously you didn't want that, and you wanted me to 'defend' the general camp and sleazy tone of the game. It probably set out with the best intentions, but it horrendously misfires, probably due to Japanese cultural tropes that I don't know enough about to comment on, but then again these guys turn young girls into 'idols' for the very purpose of flogging up-skirt shots of them as Fan Service. Bayonetta is generally this idea stretched out ad nauseum. She isn't a model character for women at all, if anything Jeanne's chic and conservative look places her as a much better role model in this area, but she's only playable after difficult conditions are met. Nevertheless, she is in the game. The worst culprit of Bayonetta's camp-gone-bad issues are the Joy enemies, faceless angles who mimic Bayonetta. One of the simpler ways of taken them out involves a pretty awful mini cutscene where they are literally killed by a kind of BDSM-gone-wrong scenario. Not a fan of that, but then again I generally don't bother with torturer attacks. 

The whole thing tries to be nudge-nudge, wink-wink but it really does fail. The beauty of all that shit is that, bar a handful of scenes, it is entirely skippable. Usually, folk like me who play games like Bayonetta and Devil May Cry, don't give a shit about the cut-scenes. Of course there are your, sigh, 'weeaboo' folk who lap it up, but I don't. I genuinely don't care. The artwork on display is strong enough for me, and the visual feedback from learning and hashing out combos is perfect. On top of that, the little ping you get on securing a Pure Platinum medal is brilliant - knowing that you've managed a section as fast as you can, with the biggest combos you can pull off, without getting hit once, and then strung a whole chapter of those sections together, including the limit-pushing Alfheim Portals... well I'll take that feeling of satisfaction over a million cut-scenes any day.

The issue that bugs me here is that although Bayonetta is a promoter of this drug hazed hyper sexualisation, so are tons of games. Bayo seems to have become a bit of a flogging point and who knows why. Her kitschy nods and winks to the camera whilst it attempts to titillate you in the most puerile and silly way as possible is viewed as abhorrent, yet Kratos manages to find time to get his rocks off in a variety of crass ways (the originally vase on the cabinet was brilliant) culminating with two of Aphrodite's subjects touching themselves into submission. That's also avoiding a whole slew of other games.

ALSO: Why do I fall back on the mechanics defence of Bayonetta? Because I find them sublime and they keep me playing the game. I play brawler titles to fit into a fighting system and learn its nuances. Not to have a story delivered to me.

Now here is someone else, who will say something disparaging about the game in 5...

I've never played Bayonetta so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

BUT TEH PREZENTAESHUN IS SHIT LOL

I drink a few pints, see a couple of shows at the fringe and this thread gets great. Here's one for you - ALL WRESTLING GAMES THAT AREN'T JUKES

I think the environments (which in Vigrid are clearly inspired by Gaudi's work in Barcelona) and the enemy designs are fucking brilliant in their absurdity. A giant cherubs head, upside down with the physiology of a dragon adorned with gold and ivory blended into is, to me, wonderful. I'd take that kind of philosophy towards enemy design over any number of Locusts or whatever.

"Fucking brilliant" is excessive but aye, the most successful elements of the presentation. If only they were in a better game, really.

Well, Bayonetta's largest crime is the horrendous sexualization of women.

Liveinadive wrote:

Well, Bayonetta's largest crime is the horrendous sexualization of women.

Again, plenty of games have done this. The cultural landscape it comes from is entirely different too so I'm not sure it is as simple as that. It is frequently awful, but It was probably never aiming for that, it's a case of intent not being followed through into execution. As said above, God of War does exactly the same but it never tries to be tongue in cheek about it, the women in it are literally tools for Kratos.

Now I'm not sure if Bayonetta doing an OTT 'hello boys' pose is equal to or worse than Kratos screwing Aphrodite for health points whilst her two servants touch each other up into ecstasy, but I'm fairly certain they were aiming for different things. One worked, the other didn't.

All you can judge is the end product so I can only agree with you that it is shit, but as I said, I skip it because I don't like it.