Gaming YouTubers. OP kinda updated. - The Bear and Badger

Bollockoff

So you can't review games that are actually on Nintendo systems but aren't made by Nintendo?

IanHamlett

Just found out you don't need to remove Nintendo content. They can still fuck off.

IanHamlett

I think reviews are covered bu other laws but I'm not sure. When's Cockbeard back?

Dogfingers

Right, I don't think this is as black and white as this is being made out.

Imagine you're a publisher and some redundant shitbag with his wanky youtube channel has put several of your games in their entirety on there for all to see. Is it ok for him to profiteer from the hard work of your designers, writers and composers without the pub earning anything from it?

I admit there are several levels to this and it is kinda shitty publishers are coming down on 5 minute review videos and the like, but my stance changes completely when the entire game is made available to watch freely.

Games with a strong emphasis on plot/characters etc are surely being infringed upon here. Games have gone beyond mere interaction and to a level of cinematic, plot driven intrigue. The reviews of the Last of Us/Mass Effect/The Stanley Parable showed praised, singularly for their narrative. If this is made freely accessible on youtube in its entirety, are there not some ethical issues here? It's more than just 'free advertising' if your exposing the journey and conclusion in full on a video channel. I just feel its somewhat blinkered and naive to say publishers are being arseholes for doing this.

The solution is rather difficult to imagine. I see noissues with showing games where modus operandi is pure interaction - fighting games, puzzle games ala tetris, etc. But when games attempt reach beyond that and have narrative components, this becomes very blurry.

IanHamlett

The current system probably doesn't do enough but this is a turd in a bed.

I can think of a few games that people might play for the story, none of them are Nintendo games.

mistercrayon

It's very blurry. Even a game with no real plot like Super Mario relies on surprise and inventiveness to carry it through. You suck that out of a game and boom.

There has to be a middle ground where everyone should get something out of the pie.

I guess you could argue that free advertising is a piece of the pie but usually advertising is something a person with a product chooses to do. Running around saying "free advertising" is not the same. Imagine if someone spent time/money creating a mcdonalds or apple advert on ITV just saying how shit it was, would Apple say, eh, that's fine... it's completely off message but at least we didn't pay for it! Huzzah!

mistercrayon

Essentially, it seems to me, YTrs seem like they want all the freedom of being unpaid to do anything and all the pay of doing promotional work.

IanHamlett

But it really does help sales of all but the most broken games. A PS3 game from 2010 was in the top 100 of last year FFS.

IanHamlett

mistercrayon wrote:

Essentially, it seems to me, YTrs seem like they want all the freedom of being unpaid to do anything and all the pay of doing promotional work.

I don't give fuck about those people. I care about me. If the info that I get has been filtered by the man then I'm not happy.

vicinity_of_pie

This is kinda what I was getting at in the Wii U thread, it's ok for the lets-players saying "this helps everybody!" but the positive benefit with how things stood was much more obvious (and measurable) for them. It could be free advertising, but you can't tell how many people went on to buy the game directly thanks to the lets-plays they watched and you can't tell how many people didn't bother buying the game because they've already seen it. I've seen people (on the internet) recommending other people just watch a lets-play on youtube rather than buying the game. This is why I agree it's kinda up to the IP owners to decide how they want to handle it.

vicinity_of_pie

FFS, that person recommended someone watch a lets-play of The last of us, rather than waiting until he coud buy it!

Diluted Dante

I'd find people watching a playthrough of a game in lieu of actually playing it fucking weird.

vicinity_of_pie

IanHamlett wrote:

Essentially, it seems to me, YTrs seem like they want all the freedom of being unpaid to do anything and all the pay of doing promotional work.

I don't give fuck about those people. I care about me. If the info that I get has been filtered by the man then I'm not happy.

You already can't tell what sponsorship deals these people have behind closed doors! I understand the concern though, they need to be somewhat open about what they're not allowed to say. If it's "don't say fuck or bugger" i'm fine with that. If it's "never show our games in a negative light" then fuck that.

IanHamlett wrote:

But it really does help sales of all but the most broken games. A PS3 game from 2010 was in the top 100 of last year FFS.

What game is that? I'd argue most of them will play games that are popular, rather than the game becoming popular thanks to them. People use Minecraft as an example of a game that became popular thanks to let-players but i'd argue it was already, or was going to be hugely popular without them (I realise notch himself says they had a lot to do with how fast it got popular). Minecraft made LPs popular, not the other way around (IMO).

IanHamlett

skate3.

IanHamlett

There's a problem with endorsements but I seriously doubt any of the people I follow are taking backhanders. The rules have also changed so that you have to declare sponsors.

vicinity_of_pie

Treat Nintendo youtube videos as semi-Nintendo sponsored material and come here for the truth!

I'm pretty sure it won't take long to suss out how much they can say. If you never hear a negative word something dodge is going on.

IanHamlett

Using their program to cover bad noise is a concern, like maybe taking twice as long to approve a negative video, but I don't know if they could be arsed. My main worry is the whitelist.

IanHamlett

Bollockoff wrote:

So you can't review games that are actually on Nintendo systems but aren't made by Nintendo?

I think it only applies to Nintendo published games but I'm not 100%.

vicinity_of_pie

Gonzo wrote:

If your game can be enjoyed via let's play, both the game and the person is in trouble. The game, because it isn't doing its job. The person, because they are wasting their time

The point was that it happens, people recommending other people not buy the game but rather, watch the entirety on youtube. For every "I bought this games because of x" anecdote people come up with, there are cases where people aren't buying it because they don't need to. I used the last of us example because i've seen it very recently and it's a game most who've played will agree, that you really should play for yourself. Although I suspect in a lot of cases it would help the game, it's not as clear cut as the lets-players would have you believe.

Gonzo wrote:

But I cannot believe people defending Nintendo. I suppose it is the one company that can count on such support. I have sunk ridiculous hours over dragon age inquisition, and 39.99 straight into EA's coffers to buy it. I wanted to play an RPG. But I knew I didn't know anything about dragon age, and the keep wasn't enough. So I watched, or skim watched, archengeia's marathon streams on YouTube. It took a week or so, whenever I was cooking or tidying or had some time. I got enough background for 1 and 2 to get this game, to recognise cameos, etc etc. I love it, and will deffo buy the dlc and next instalments. Also, I have been this close to buying a Wii u for smash. I never gave smash a second look until the smash Bros docu was linked here and I have watched streams and YouTube vids of tourneys. Don't try to justify Nintendo's decision. They are being Nintendo, the ugly side of Nintendo. The kind that squeezed third parties when SNES was dominant, the kind that tried to ban grey imports and imports full stop back when cex started. Cunts.

I'm only defending them as far as saying it really is up to them to decide how they handle this, they own the IP and the lets-players have to abide by youtubes rules. I'm not saying you shouldn't think they're cunts for doing it, but they're a company and people are making money off their IP, i'm not surprised they want a cut of the action. I wouldn't feel differently if it was EA or Microsoft trying to do the same (and they will, give them time).

Gonzo wrote:

I hope they get dumped out of the hardware race and just turn into a software house.

Haha, never going to happen.

Yossarian

Oznoz wrote:

If your game can be enjoyed via let's play, both the game and the person is in trouble.

The game, because it isn't doing its job.

The person, because they are wasting their time

Hmm.

IanHamlett

I can't imagine watching watching 2hrs of a game I'd love and not waning to buy it.

Skerret

oznp talking fiddle faddle. Any game can be LPd. Having your game become an LP darling can be a handy sales boost. Pewdiepie may be a cunt but it just so happens that Crossy Road (Shabs knows one half of the devs, just two blokes pottering about in Melbourne) exploded into a 7-8 figure monster after he featured it via LP style meanderings. Kids love that shit.

Anyway, you, as a dev, want LP exposure. In that sense, the game is doing it's job nicely.

LP can also be good fun after you've played something. Watching Dark Souls LP is good for "RUH ROH here comes that bit, oh boy!"

Diluted Dante

Skerret wrote:

oznp talking fiddle faddle. Any game can be LPd.

He means if you watch it and don't want to play it it hasn't done it's job. Or at least that's how I read it.

IanHamlett

I can't talk aussi. I work out skez's meaning from the responses.

mistercrayon

A careless person going through HL2 may enjoy it less than someone who watches a meticulous lets play though. what would that one gain from noticing the bird shat on the buggy in his own subsequent play through?

Yossarian

*roll*

IanHamlett

Ima organise the vids and channels that have been suggested. Any suggestions for classification system is welcome.

Skerret

geez I don't even know what I mean, good luck to anyone else trying to decipher it, wahey

krs

Some of these may be worth a look.

Skerret

Fantastic, I will use these.

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