The British Politics Thread - The Bear and Badger

SpaceGazelle

When she's in the mood Sturgeon is proper lol funny.

GooberTheHat

I think there is a "rally around the leader" effect going on, which happens during crisis. The number of mouth breathers I see on social media saying "its not boris' fault, I'd like to see them do better" is not insignificant.

acemuzzy

This thread attempts a plausible explanation

https://twitter.com/cakeylaura/status/1341412374792835073?s=19

Unclear how this will change as demographics shift. Will people continue to be more Tory as they age, at the same rate, or will cuntishness subside??

mistercrayon

It makes no sense.

monkey

acemuzzy wrote:

This thread attempts a plausible explanation

https://twitter.com/cakeylaura/status/1341412374792835073?s=19

Unclear how this will change as demographics shift. Will people continue to be more Tory as they age, at the same rate, or will cuntishness subside??

I think it’s this. It’s not just old people but there’s a lot of it in that age group. A slow burning cultural and political thing since the 90s. No real political representation in a long time. Cameron wasn’t one of them. So Brexit comes along and they’re finally back in charge. Their racist jokes are fine because the PM is racist and he doesn’t say sorry. Only the pro-Brexit politicians reflected their opinions. So defeat for Brexit is defeat of that group and then they go back to having the metrosexuals in charge. They’ve got no idea they’re being used. That the politicians they support have less respect for them than they do for their opponents.

equinox_code

acemuzzy wrote:

Will people continue to be more Tory as they age, at the same rate, or will cuntishness subside??

I'd guess less so. The real correlation is that people become more economically conservative as they amass wealth and assets, which typically accrue with time/age, but that isn't happening as much anymore.

acemuzzy

Agree with both of those

AndCallMeCharlie

acemuzzy wrote:

This thread attempts a plausible explanation https://twitter.com/cakeylaura/status/1341412374792835073?s=19 Unclear how this will change as demographics shift. Will people continue to be more Tory as they age, at the same rate, or will cuntishness subside??

Very insightful

I_R

A trade union was a reason for a lot of socially conservative people to vote Labour in the past, that's gone for most people now.

The long term failure of Labour governance in Labour heartlands is coming home.

The percieved betrayal of the left by Blair followed by the treatment of Corbyn by groups within the party is obviously going to lose a section of support.

The internet has probaly turned a lot potential Labour voters into lifelong blue team members, either over culture wars or propaganda that would never fly in traditional media. I'm also struggling to imagine the traditional media ever being as enthusiastic for a Labour leader now as they were for Blair.

SpaceGazelle

Labour are, let's face it, shite. I vote for them but I don't have a convincing reason why. Habit I suppose.

Capitalism and tech are the main drivers of change and it's not going well. The only hope we have now is AI and automation, which is frankly a ridiculous gamble but at this point I don't see what chance we have otherwise. In the meantime I guess we'll all wait for handouts from Gates, Musk and Bezos.

SpaceGazelle

I think I'll probably vote SNP at the next election, not that they'll improve inequality much either.

Funkstain

I think the "no like change" thing is constant and universal and built-in. I'm not sure it's a case of "people become more tory as they get older" I think it's a case of "lots (most?) of people become more socially conservative as they get older" as the resistance to / fear of change strengthens.

Look at how so many of us feel about influencers, youtubers, tiktokers etc.

Funkstain

I also think people become economically non-progressive as they amass wealth, yes, as per Noxy's point. And given that previous generations have amassed wealth consistently, and have had natural aversion of change so many of us have as we get older, then that translates neatly (too neatly?) into older = vote conservative

As Nox also says: this wealth accumulation is occurring far less for our generation and younger, removing economic reasons to vote tory; I don't think becoming more socially conservative as you get older will change much, but perhaps the economic stuff alone will drive down core tory votes.

monkey

There’s a glut of it at the moment. Rapid technological change and accelerating social change which they’re all but excluded from. And on the other hand, not properly realising how much the world had changed in respect to eg the job market and the social contract they benefited from.

Funkstain

monkey wrote:

acemuzzy wrote:

This thread attempts a plausible explanation https://twitter.com/cakeylaura/status/1341412374792835073?s=19 Unclear how this will change as demographics shift. Will people continue to be more Tory as they age, at the same rate, or will cuntishness subside??

I think it’s this. It’s not just old people but there’s a lot of it in that age group. A slow burning cultural and political thing since the 90s. No real political representation in a long time. Cameron wasn’t one of them. So Brexit comes along and they’re finally back in charge. Their racist jokes are fine because the PM is racist and he doesn’t say sorry. Only the pro-Brexit politicians reflected their opinions. So defeat for Brexit is defeat of that group and then they go back to having the metrosexuals in charge. They’ve got no idea they’re being used. That the politicians they support have less respect for them than they do for their opponents.

so this, yes, but with the caveat that it was ever thus (not just since the 90s), but what's made it worse (as in tories keep getting in) is that non-traditional labour is less socially conservative. So maybe that agrees with your point about "no political representation in a long time" - effectively, progressive economic policies tied to patriotism and no particular platform (at best) on anti-bigotry, equality, and social progressivism.

the point about the politicians using the voters is again not contemporary. it was ever thus.

Funkstain

monkey wrote:

There’s a glut of it at the moment. Rapid technological change and accelerating social change which they’re all but excluded from. And on the other hand, not properly realising how much the world had changed in respect to eg the job market and the social contract they benefited from.

yes this too - pace of change quite fast so maybe exacerbates the resistance to change bit - although the world always looks different from one generation to the next. I'm sure lots of people felt very left out by the social changes in the 20s, 60s, 70s and so on

acemuzzy

Lets not forget that FTTP is FUCKING BULLSHIT in this regard

Brooks

Funkstain wrote:

Look at how so many of us feel about influencers, youtubers, tiktokers etc.

I think the cutthroat late capitalist decline and desperation that has made all these stereotypes a Thing means we're probably due for a bump in young Tories, absolutely atomised and hustling against eachother. People are nice when conditions are nice.

Escape

That Twitter thread starts well enough, but starts whiffing of centrism with her ostensible Corbyn bash.

A very small minority of my working-class mates were won around by Corbyn (or more accurately socialism, and it just took continual attacks on Corbyn to platform it), but the vast majority voted for Johnson. The less they have the more rightwing they've become, and they're mostly our sort of age.

So I agree with Brooks, in that I think it's being comfortable that brings out the most charity from us. The Tories are whipping this exponential growth as hard as they can now, where middle-class criticism's helping them (‘If it's pissing off people with a lot more money than me it must be good!’). It's bizarrely back-to-front; or at least would be, if not for Starmer being the acceptable face of Toryism.

The gutting of social mobility seems to have radically reduced the group between working- and middle-class, deliberately corralling us back into narrowly defined and counteraggressive classes of old for political ease of control. Johnson and Starmer doing the same damage at different rates.

Escape

Came in for a rant and saw I'm tag-teaming myself! A Ric Flair woo and I'm back in — fuck it.

Just for a quick pollo bash about my end-of-year feelings, which I was gonna write elsewhere until I realised I haven't been affected by the lockdowns in a practical sense, 'cause I'm pretty much a hermit anyway (or a helmet, depending on who you ask).

But mentally it's been a shitty year for me, and I should really make an effort to avoid social media as a boredom go-to in 2021 (future tip: I won't). I've been constantly upset at witnessing our comfortably-off FBPEs shouting at leavers about division; racist leavers praising Johnson; and our media doing nothing to help. England's widespread selfishness and ignorance this year has been the disappointment of my lifetime.

A low point for me (mediawise) was SIR Tom Moore, and I know that's not a widely shared view, but he's always given me poppy-off vibes. A wealthy man doing laps of his garden before accepting a knighthood from a beacon of the inequality that set him in motion... I wish he'd told the Queen to fuck off until we've a government willing to do the right thing.

Because there's no way a socialist old boy doing laps of his council flats would've been covered by our media. Moore was an absolute gift to them as a rightwing wedge that fits in many a leftwing door. I've nothing against him personally and congratulate his efforts, but in a better country we'd have had no cause to hear of them. He'd have been left alone in his conservatory to enjoy a nice cup of tea and a read of his Legion.

I'm glad Brexit's technically done, because after five years we need to start campaigning to fix the incoming Tory damage, rather than still arguing over a shittily divisive-by-design referendum. Five years ago we should've been presented with even-handed reviews on EU membership; reviews that even now remain absent in mainstream discourse. I think there's way too much ignorance on both sides, so I'm happy to move on.

And of course I'm super-glad there's a vaccine, which I hope works in tandem with our increasing immunity, and then finally we'll see the R turn the corner for good come spring. I'd wish a better political year to us all, but, y'know... Keith.

LivDiv

There was a Muslim bloke doing laps in a shit area. Guess how much coverage it got.

LivDiv

Anyway. Look after yourself Escape. Good to see you back here recently.

Escape

LivDiv wrote:

There was a Muslim bloke doing laps in a shit area. Guess how much coverage it got.

He should've dressed as a giant poppy, worn an #AllLivesMatter placard, and issued Vera Lynn from a boombox above his head like John Cusack.

HNY, mate!

LarryDavid

Why not celebrate the New Year with some Cpt Tom gin:

Captain+Tom%27s+London+Dry+Gin?format=500w

A steal at just £35!

The good Captain is currently sunning himself in Barbadoes, a trip he got given for free obviously. Around the time of his ascendency there was a twitter thread exposing his Daughter's (runs a PR/marketing company, strangely enough) rabid anti-Corbyn rantings last election time. Wouldn't want to fund the NHS via your money eh? Better to get Dad on a modern day Bataan death march around your (very large) back-garden with the suckers donating their money, after which you can then further exploit and monetise his efforts & add another wing on the mansion.

Experienced in creating and delivering Omnichannel Strategies, Customer Journey, International Sales, Distribution, Marketing & Logistics Supply Chain in Luxury Goods, FMCG, F&B, Tech and Hospitality. People Strategy Expert: Building your People Strategy, Talent Mapping your Business, working with you to ensure you retain your Top Talent. Passionate about creating and developing representative diverse leaders and teams.

Fact - you may have seen Hannah on TV alongside her Father, Captain Sir Tom Moore.

Oh we certainly saw him alright. You did a great job on that omnichannel strategy.

nick_md

Larry you're wasted on just this forum. Assuming you aren't two-timing us.

RedDave2

Bet Larry has a great omnichannel strategy...

LarryDavid

I've hired Hannah Ingram-Moore to deal with it. This time next year it'll be me immortalised in fireworks above the millennium dome, middle finger proudly raised.

Escape

It's like when that Mary Portas went around telling people to move their shops to trendier areas and I didn't get pissy at all.

Roujin

What in the fuck is "The Captain Tom Federation"?

Roujin

I googled it, don't go to the website unless you have a sick bucket ready.

I respect his charity work, I will certainly die long before I reach my 90s , but Jesus Christ, just fund the NHS properly instead of hauling the ghost of bulldog spirit in front of the public to raise money.

Howdy, Stranger!

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