Difficult times.
*I'll preface this ramble by stating the following. I'm on the road. I'm limited to posting on my phone. I may have missed some stuff today.*
Anyhoo.
Fair play to you for this thread Fenton. Strikes me as a very brave and timely intervention.
Ellie's appearance on these boards has probably thrown up many questions for a lot of us given her revelations.
I doff my cap to you for keeping silent till this juncture.
Let's be candid.
My concern, given that she posted about you, and how she couldn't live without you troubled me, but not because I read them at face value, more because I was inclined to think that there may have been an alterior motive, namely to influence your current relationship with her.
We've all been young, and we've all experienced drama queens of both sexes.
I was concerned that having no personal knowledge of this person that she might be playing all of us, and indeed primarily Fenton. ZOMG he doesn't love me and I'm going to kill myself but here I am posting on his forum about it and of course he is reading it.
Troubling stuff for all parties. Is it true or is it just the drama of youth. We as people who don't know her have no way of telling fact from fiction.
Still. Given the circumstances, I, and indeed everyone else (and yes I include Andy in that. We're all in the same boat when it comes to face value) I would argue have given her a very sympathetic welcome here.
Bottom line is, everyone has been sympathetic regardless of knowing if any of that sympathy was genuinely warranted.
It's a difficult call for a tight knit community where we all know each other pretty well to have this sort of drama thrust upon it.
I think Fenton has done the right thing in keeping quiet till now, and I totally sympathise with his predicament. That being said, I also think that now was the perfect time to speak up.
I'm absolutely sure that eveyone here wishes Ellie the very best. We're a disparate community, but we're very tight knit. Some are sensitive, some are bullish, many have their own demons, but the one unifying principal of our community is that we're all good people and though it may not always seem like it we all genuinely care about each other.
Many have contributed really positive messages to Ellie in the mental health thread. These are all heartfelt and honest feelings, and I'm sure that support will continue.
Should Ellie in her current condition be posting here? That's not for me to say. But she will always be made welcome in this community. Perhaps in future people will take her condition into account if she pisses you off, and rather than engaging in the usual forum petty squabbling people will perhaps just turn the other cheek and point out she's out of line. Not every argument has to escalate to biblical proportions. There is a time and a place.
As for the locking of the technology thread, well I back Peter 100% on that. Given her fragile state of mind I believe it was a timely intervention on his part, and I hope that now the truth is out that people will be able to appreciate that.
I've rambled long enough, so I'll finish by saying, Ellie, you will always be welcome here, we're a decent bunch and we've helped each other through difficult times through the years. When all around you is dark, there will always be a tiny glimmer of light for you at The B&B. That's how we roll here. We look out for our own.
Fenton, be strong. You're a good guy and a credit to our community. If you ever need any help or advice then you know you can always come to your friends here.
And everybody, well, just be excellent to each other.

life is precious

g.man

Lovely post, g.man, but I don't think it's entirely possible to expect us all to keep track of everyone else's situations.  No-one can say it's reasonable that we all have to subscribe to the mental health thread, or indeed any thread, and be aware of possible issues with people before we engage with them in an argument or even just generally.

I just think that in an adult environment like this, we can expect everyone to be supportive, but it's not a simple as that.  While everyone will obviously wish Ellie and anyone else with serious issues well, they can't be used as an excuse for behaviour or wheeled out when they're on the receiving end of behaviour they don't like (Ellie's "that might push me over the edge" comment was the lowest comment in that whole thread's argument, bar none).

If we have a situation like this, where Fenton obviously knows Ellie well enough to be able to post as he has done, then I'm more inclined to suggest that he speaks to her about avoiding conflict rather than every one of the other few hundred members being told they have to moderate their behaviour in a certain way.  

It's obviously not sustainable that we ring-fence certain posters from disagreements or arguments, so what am I meant to do if Ellie does something I disagree with or something that really gets me angry?  Refrain from posting entirely?  What if the same happens with another poster, but I haven't noticed his background in the mental health thread?

regmcfly wrote:

wonderbanana wrote:

regmcfly wrote:

This says something about the flippancy that people treat real mental illness with. And the reasons a lot of people won't diagnose themselves

regmcfly wrote:

This says something about the flippancy that people treat real mental illness with. And the reasons a lot of people won't diagnose themselves

Don't think that's fair tbh. Real world so to speak I agree but a non specialist forum used to banter with a newcomer who is bantering as well, it's easy too see how it would be easy to misread and it's not like the internet doesn't have its fair share of attention seekers, trolls etc.

Most people here are not experts, and most don't read every thread.

Fwiw I like Truth and I hope she sticks around especially in Halols. Please don't take me the wrong way as you are a top dude but Fenton you could have perhaps posted earlier about the situation, it may have prevented any confusion in a situation that would was very hard to judge given Truths other posts and her being new here. None of this has been ideal maybe but its not hard to see where the seriousness can be easily missed.

I'd hope that no matter who it was on this forum, that if someone started talking about ending their life, we'd treat them with a bit more care and less "banter". A bit of overall perspective from people rather than minding to single thread perspectives could help.

In principle I agree but thats a simplistic view on what was a complicated sitution that I think we have all learned from. Overall perspective is easy in hindsight or when things are one dimensional, problem is this wasn't. I think in many ways GMans observations sum it up best. Peace.

regmcfly wrote:

I'd hope that no matter who it was on this forum, that if someone started talking about ending their life, we'd treat them with a bit more care and less "banter". A bit of overall perspective from people rather than minding to single thread perspectives could help.

Again though, based on what I said, what do we do when all those cries for help that aid in contextualising someone's other posts are in a thread we don't read?  Did any of us who did read the mental health thread take the time to PM adkm to mention that she's had/is having some serious issues, rather than just posting silly gifs?

I don't see a perfect solution, and I think it's wrong for anyone to censure adkm for treating her exactly the same as he'd have treated me, you, or any other forum member in that thread.  

It's easy to say people need to have a wider viewpoint, but what do you actually mean in this situation?

Yes.

Having just read it back, I thought he was treating her as he'd probably treat anyone else. Which is how it should be, really. I don't think this episode reflects poorly on adkm at all.

I don't, I think he was arguing in the same style he has with loads of us over the last few years, and that's why I don't think it's fair to single him out.  He doesn't read the mental health thread, which is not a crime.

I hadn't read the mental health thread when I suggested he stop being a cunt.

He was trolling for the sake of it, irrelevant who the 'victim' was.

Edit: Out of the way Bananarama

g.man wrote:

I hear what you're saying Elm and I totally agree with you. It's a difficult situation, and no one can expect everybody to be up to speed with the finer points of situations like this. In this particular case the truth is now plain to see, and hopefully people will take that into account, and should the need arise then it's up to other members to fill in the blanks should flare ups occur. There can be no script or rules for this sort of thing. We just have to make it up as we go along. That being said, nobody should have a free reign or excuse to cause havoc here, and should that situation occur then it will be dealt with, albeit sympathetically. regards g.man

I know, it's a bit clearer in this case now, but my key learning points would be that anyone who had read her posts in the mental health thread probably should have dropped adkm a line just in case.  That would have allowed him to make up his own mind as to whether he should approach her in a different manner.  Secondly, if somewhere is going to be so bad for someone's health that they worry it might cause long-term effect then they and everyone who knows them should do something to limit their access to it.  I don't think the positive comments in the mental health thread outweighed everything else.

I'm very similar to adkm and I admit the cleavage shot followed by "iPwn's not moronic because my friend's got a first in law from Oxford and he uses it" boiled my blood too.  I would have said something had the thread not been locked, and then I subsequently read the mental health thread by chance and that would have changed my mind.

I still don't know what I'm meant to do if I end up disagreeing with her over something else, be it something serious or whether or not Far Cry 2 is one of the defining games of this generation.

I don't read the mental health thread or the welcome thread so the first I saw of Truthahn1 was a weird boob shot in the "wot we look like" thread which along with the smatterings of twitter talk I see coloured my opinion some what.

I hope that she and you are both okay though Fenton. It's all pretty horrible.

The twitter gossiping/bitching is something I'm not really a fan of but that's something for another day.

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME WHO I SHOULD BAN TO FIX EVERYTHING PLS.

That Harlequin chappy, think he's creating alt's to stir up trouble.

I've got to say, I entirely missed the cleavage shot in the "what we look like thread", which does rather throw the part of the argument I really objected to, ADKMs comment about Hahn flashing her boobs, into a different light.

Anyhoo, the truth of the situation is now writ large for all to see. I suggest we cross any further bridges as they arise.
Be adult. Be sympathetic. But should the need arise, action will be taken. This is a very supportive community, but nobody has the right to cause chaos and ill feeling here without fear of censure.

regards

g.man

Don't ban Tempy! He's great!