Retro Club - 8 & 16-bit puzzlers - The Bear and Badger

Moot_Geeza

I don't think it's been specifically mentioned but that's the one on my Switch watch list after watching a couple of 'best Metal Slug games' vids on YouTube. I thought there would be a collection available but I can't see one on the eshop.

Moot_Geeza

Blue Swirl wrote:

I just noticed this thread changed title to Run & Guns, and I hope someone has mentioned Metal Slug 3.

davyK

Metal Slug X on PS1 was my first real experience of the series. That was a really nice port though it had some shortcomings because it was PAL - bordered and a bit slow. There was the odd pause for loading but I don't remember it spoiling the enjoyment. I went onto Metal Slug 3 on PS2 and I was blown away by that game - running full screen/speed etc. But as great as the levels are it's a real slog of a game due to the HP on the bosses being ridiculously high. The zombie levels split opinion but they appeared in X too as far as I remember.

MS3 on PS2 has a couple of nice mini games too. I went on to get 4 and 5 as well - they got single disc releases in PAL and are nice ports but I felt 3 was superior.

Still have those discs. Got Anthology for PS2 but it's a mess - avoid it. Laggy as hell even in NTSC apparantly. The Anthology on Wii is good but the devs did their best to break it with idiotic control decisions that require waggle. No classic pad support. But the GC pad support saves it - but only because its analogue stick has notches - the dpad on the GC doesn't work!

I ended up getting a classic linker for the Gamecube for I could use a PS2 stick on the Wii Anthology.

Haven't played it in years - need to boot that up this week if I can stay away from Super Meat Boy.

Moot_Geeza

I've got Metal Slug Tactics on GBA I think, could give that a go on the Micro. I've read that it's a fairly good one.

Blue Swirl

MS3 is the best Metal Slug. Some people say it's 4, but they'd be wrong. To be fair, there isn't really a duffer among the (main line) series. The closest you get is 2, which suffers from frame rate issues - they fixed it with X.

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I don't think it's been specifically mentioned but that's the one on my Switch watch list after watching a couple of 'best Metal Slug games' vids on YouTube.

Definitely worth picking up. 3 has the most varied locations and enemy types, and they stuffed it with alternative routes. It has to be one of the best looking 2D games, too. (IMHO, YMMV.)

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I've got Metal Slug Tactics on GBA I think, could give that a go on the Micro. I've read that it's a fairly good one.

I think Tactics is coming out next year for Switch and PC, so I think you mean Metal Slug Advance. That's a solid Slug game, aye - you have a health bar, so you can take more than one hit, but it makes up for it by being nails hard.

Moot_Geeza

Heh I did mean Advance.

Moot_Geeza

Tactics looks great though.

monkey

Yeah want a bit of Tactics. Did the full-run of Metal Slugs a couple of years ago with infinite credits (so not really). Top-notch, very consistent across entries, but way too hard for me to do properly.

Blue Swirl

monkey wrote:

Yeah want a bit of Tactics. Did the full-run of Metal Slugs a couple of years ago with infinite credits (so not really). Top-notch, very consistent across entries, but way too hard for me to do properly.

This is why I haven't completed Metal Slug 3, despite it being my favourite - I had 3, 4, and 5 on OG Xbox, and decided to play them all with standard settings. 3 only gives you five continues by default.

Which probably just shows how much I suck at the game, tbf.

davyK

MS3 is rock hard. Fucking. Rock. Hard.

Blue Swirl

Oh good, it's not entirely me being a moron, then.

Moot_Geeza

Can you credit feed the eshop versions? I'm not up for doing it properly tbh...

davyK

I couldn't see it being done any other way without monk-like devotion.

I've credit fed my way through the PS2 version. The final levels are really long - my hand was hurting by the end of it.

Moot_Geeza

I made it through Ghosts 'n Goblins Resurrection earlier in the year. Brilliant franchise refresh, definitely one for @retroking1981. I expect Metal Slug games to be even trickier, not played any butwthe difficulty is almost always mentioned whenever they're discussed.

davyK

Don't know. G&G games are punishing too. I've never finished the 1st level of Super G&G!!

Yossarian

This thread has reminded me to re-download the Metal Slug games on my iPhone. I’m thinking of getting a Razer Kishi soon, they could be good for getting me through any blackouts we may have over the winter.

davyK

Anyone ever unlock Super Devil Mode in the original? I think if you 1CC it you get a super powered character to use and you are challenged to do the game without losing a life!!

Correction - you get it if you max out the Combat School mode score..console versions then.

davyK

retroking1981

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I made it through Ghosts 'n Goblins Resurrection earlier in the year. Brilliant franchise refresh, definitely one for @retroking1981

I do own it, just not got around to it yet.

Moot_Geeza

Mega Turrican - Mega Drive (100mins)

My first real taste of this fondly remembered franchise, unless you count a stage or two when picking from the hundreds of copied floppys on my mate's Amiga in the early 90s. I didn't even know they were horizontal fire shooters, I assumed they were multidirectional a la Contra. The shooting is strong, as is the movement/jumping and bomb roll move, but unfortunately the grappling hook just feels nasty with a non rose-tinted view. It's okay, but also fiddly and annoying. Aside from this, the game was going great guns until the obligatory maze-like stage popped up and ruined the flow. It's a decent shooter, better than most similar efforts circa 1994, but it lacks the timeless design of the very best. Some of the weapon orb placement seems particularly scattershot and there are some cheap hits in there. Plus a number of enemies need to be cheesed to avoid trading hits, especially the large flying creatures.

On the whole it's got what you need from a run & gun though. Great visuals, good music, an above average array of bosses and a set of mostly tight levels that don't stretch out for eternity. At release I reckon this would've felt like an 85%, but the above-80%, sub-90% area is a tricky one to compare to modern titles. If this released as is on a digital storefront as a new retro shooter and had to be judged by modern sensibilities regarding retro reimaginings (often better than their various inspiration, imho) the reaction would be mixed I reckon - certain elements of certain types of 2D games have been refined since, and only the very best are timeless.

An upper-mid tier 'of its time' game, then. Still decent, hasn't aged as well as some but clearly better than most 16-bit shooters.

davyK

Turrican always felt a bit cramped to me because of the size of the main sprite.

Time_on_my_hands

Turrican 2. Amiga

Overal it's like you've run into the hottie you fancied as a teen and they're still incredible.

Firstly, I only got to the 2nd stage the other day, but I'm sure that this stage wasn't actually in the ST version.
This is such an amazing game and I'm shocked at how well it holds up. Agree with davy that there is a cramped feeling - too often you'll be hit by enemies flying in from off screen and you realise there's a bit of a memory game going on. On the other hand, it encourages you to use your ridiculous arsenal to clear a path (forgot how good the flamer is) or just transform and roll through.

The level size and exploration sets it apart from others in the genre - there are so many hidden areas and the 1-up pickups make it worthwhile.

I'm cheating a bit by using save states but once I make it to the end I'll go back and do it properly.

Minnesänger

davyK wrote:

Got Anthology for PS2 but it's a mess - avoid it. Laggy as hell even in NTSC apparantly. The Anthology on Wii is good but the devs did their best to break it with idiotic control decisions that require waggle. No classic pad support. But the GC pad support saves it - but only because its analogue stick has notches - the dpad on the GC doesn't work! I ended up getting a classic linker for the Gamecube for I could use a PS2 stick on the Wii Anthology. Haven't played it in years - need to boot that up this week if I can stay away from Super Meat Boy.

Way back in the The Player days, I did the review for the PSP edition of Metal Slug Anthology and it was a weird one - proper marvel to have it running on a handheld and the game looked so good on the PSP screen, but it had loadtime issues and also suffered from some input lag. Shame as the games are so, so good. Kinda weird that they put Anthology on just about everything and every single version has some unique weird quirks. Still have that UMD somewhere. Kinda tempted to break it out again and give it another go...

Blue Swirl wrote:

MS3 is the best Metal Slug. Some people say it's 4, but they'd be wrong. To be fair, there isn't really a duffer among the (main line) series.

Agreed - they're all stupidly good, but it's 3 for me as well. Love that series.

Minnesänger

Awww, between games like Ultimate GnG, Metal Slug, Prinny: Can I Really be a Hero and the rest, the PSP really did well on the difficult games where you move left to right genre. What a console.

Blue Swirl

Minnesänger wrote:

Blue Swirl wrote:

MS3 is the best Metal Slug. Some people say it's 4, but they'd be wrong. To be fair, there isn't really a duffer among the (main line) series.

Agreed - they're all stupidly good, but it's 3 for me as well. Love that series.

My copies of 3, 4, and 5 were the only things I didn't flog when it came time to sell my OG Xbox. I'll be buried with those.

davyK

Tried a bit of Demon's Crest. That's pushing the genre limits but it's a nice game. Early stages though.

Moot_Geeza

Played that with retroking a few years back. Decent game.

Moot_Geeza

Gunstar Heroes cleared. Don't remember the shmup section or the boss gauntlet at the end being quite so difficult, must be losing my touch. Brilliant game. There are better 16-bit run & guns imo, but not many. Good old Treasure.

Eric

Lovely! I've always struggled on anything above normal to be honest.

Weapon combo of choice? Fixed or free shot? My neighbour and I used to take turns to be fixed shotters as it really helped tactically on some bosses, melee attacks and angled sections.

Used to come alive it 2 player, lobbing your team mate into enemies, the mechanics are just lovely.

Has Tilly played it yet?

Moot_Geeza

Fixed shot for me. Save states meant I could play around with a few weapons but orange straight fire + green was good for bosses (if that's the steady stream of bullets that home in?) and straight + flame for explosive shots were handy for the levels.

It's not always easy to get Tilly to play what she calls 'flat games'. Was my late night game so I was mildly wrecked and she was asleep. Might get her to take a look today but she wants to get back into Cat Quest II...

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