IndyRef3 or 4 or 2, I forget - The Bear and Badger

Diluted Dante

The only people that Johnson will be fooling with that is the gulliable, or the English as they're sometimes known.

jdanielp

Seems likely that Johnson got crabs before visiting Scotland.

monkey

HawBawJaws wrote:

monkey wrote:

If Scotland goes then we’re all fucked, both sides of the border.

Probably. But if I was a betting man (which I occasionally am) I'd bet folding money on Scotland being unfucked a lot faster than the rest of the UK.

Maybe. The main obstacle to an independent Scotland succeeding is England not letting it. And if you take out the Scots votes it’s going to be wall to wall Tories down here forever more. Tories who are itching for scapegoats to have pointless fights with to score ‘victories’ on eg trade.

monkey

Not that my opinion, a 1/4 Scot who has barely stepped foot inside the country, counts for much. But the outcome most likely to actually improve the lives of Scots is through Westminster reform ie PR and more U.K. wide devolution. But that’s a tough sell, doesn’t look possible and just as hard a path to walk as any other. Still, I should be eligible for a passport (thanks Gran) and that passport is almost certainly going to be better value than a British one.

Roujin

The EU seems much more closely politically aligned with scottish people than our lot as far as I can tell. Good luck to Scotland when they inevitably fuck off and leave us to play in our sandpit full of our own shallow buried turds to rejoin the EU.

Would deffo try and move to an EU Scotland if such a thing comes to pass.

HawBawJaws

monkey wrote:

HawBawJaws wrote:

monkey wrote:

If Scotland goes then we’re all fucked, both sides of the border.

Probably. But if I was a betting man (which I occasionally am) I'd bet folding money on Scotland being unfucked a lot faster than the rest of the UK.

Maybe. The main obstacle to an independent Scotland succeeding is England not letting it. And if you take out the Scots votes it’s going to be wall to wall Tories down here forever more. Tories who are itching for scapegoats to have pointless fights with to score ‘victories’ on eg trade.

I get what you're saying. But the 'if you leave we'll be stuck with the tories' argument has lost any weight with me. And to be fair, Labour couldn't organise a ride in a brothel, never mind organising themselves into being an effective opposition, so there's only so much sympathy left.

And if the indy plan succeeds, we'll be back in the EU, so any fights they have on trade etc won't just be with us. Remind me again how the UK is getting on negotiating wi EU just now?

Diluted Dante

Fantastic, we have an oven ready deal.

monkey

Presumably you'd have to arrange a settlement with the UK before you can join the EU though. Maybe you can sort it to slide from one straight to the other. I just think it might be 10-20 years before you get a friendly government south of the border. I'd probably be voting yes now, because (waves arms around at the state of the country) just look at the place.

Worst thing you could do is visibly ally yourselves with the EU during independence negotiations with the UK. We've just repeatedly had our arses handed to us, our balls cut off and served back to us, and then along comes Scotland wearing an EU t-shirt and ready to sail off to a bright new Tory-less future. But now the UK has actual leverage, and a mad hostile press denouncing the whole country as traitors.

HawBawJaws

monkey wrote:

Presumably you'd have to arrange a settlement with the UK before you can join the EU though. Maybe you can sort it to slide from one straight to the other. I just think it might be 10-20 years before you get a friendly government south of the border. I'd probably be voting yes now, because (waves arms around at the state of the country) just look at the place.

Well, get that passport, move your ass up here and vote yes next time then! It's coming, no matter what the toffee nosed picks in Westminster say.

Side note: I think one of the biggest threats to independence just now is independence supporters. There's a growing frustration that sturgeon isn't pushing hard enough for another indyref. Frustration I share, but I believe a sturgeon led snp is our best chance of getting another referendum. The supposed forming of another indy party led by salmon (or possibly even Stuart 'rev' Campbell????) will just take votes away from the snp. The holyrood election coming soon should be interesting.

Diluted Dante

I mean, do they think Sturgeon doesn't want it or something?

SpaceGazelle

poprock wrote:

D’you mean Arran or Glasgow? Or just Scotland in general?

All of them.

HawBawJaws

Diluted Dante wrote:

I mean, do they think Sturgeon doesn't want it or something?

Basically, aye. Every wings over Scotland article (I know, I know, we've discussed him before) recently has been an essay on how Westminster won't grant another ref/snp are slowly becoming Labour and don't want another ref in case it upsets the gravy train. Which I think is ludicrous. Aye, I want independence yesterday, but I agree with the 'forget indy, there's a pandemic on' stance the snp are taking just now.

SpaceGazelle

HawBawJaws wrote:

I mean, do they think Sturgeon doesn't want it or something?

Basically, aye. Every wings over Scotland article (I know, I know, we've discussed him before) recently has been an essay on how Westminster won't grant another ref/snp are slowly becoming Labour and don't want another ref in case it upsets the gravy train. Which I think is ludicrous. Aye, I want independence yesterday, but I agree with the 'forget indy, there's a pandemic on' stance the snp are taking just now.

The Tories won't grant anything until the see what the consequences of a no deal Brexit will be, which could take a while. By then the Scottish mood might be different, although presumably if it's going tits up the indie vote woiuld get stronger.

Diluted Dante

HawBawJaws wrote:

Diluted Dante wrote:

I mean, do they think Sturgeon doesn't want it or something?

Basically, aye. Every wings over Scotland article (I know, I know, we've discussed him before) recently has been an essay on how Westminster won't grant another ref/snp are slowly becoming Labour and don't want another ref in case it upsets the gravy train. Which I think is ludicrous. Aye, I want independence yesterday, but I agree with the 'forget indy, there's a pandemic on' stance the snp are taking just now.

Absolute morons. Just taken a look at WoS, and wow, there are some startlingly Bad Takes, even by their own standards.

HawBawJaws

SpaceGazelle wrote:

HawBawJaws wrote:

I mean, do they think Sturgeon doesn't want it or something?

Basically, aye. Every wings over Scotland article (I know, I know, we've discussed him before) recently has been an essay on how Westminster won't grant another ref/snp are slowly becoming Labour and don't want another ref in case it upsets the gravy train. Which I think is ludicrous. Aye, I want independence yesterday, but I agree with the 'forget indy, there's a pandemic on' stance the snp are taking just now.

The Tories won't grant anything until the see what the consequences of a no deal Brexit will be, which could take a while. By then the Scottish mood might be different, although presumably if it's going tits up the indie vote woiuld get stronger.

Based on all the evidence so far, I think 'tits up' would be a better outcome than anyone expects.

poprock

Yeah, we (the UK) won’t be able to afford any tits by this time next year. Up, down or sideways. No tits for anyone.

SpaceGazelle

Salmond will be twice as outraged.

Kazuo

Don't worry, he'll be back with his own new pro-indy outfit for next year's election, just in time to ruin it for everyone.

SpaceGazelle

Wtf is he thinking, the egomaniacal baffoon.

HawBawJaws

Kazuo wrote:

Don't worry, he'll be back with his own new pro-indy outfit for next year's election, just in time to ruin it for everyone.

I genuinely hope he doesn't, or if he does, it goes the way it went for that RISE mob that appeared a while back. Made lots of noise, achieved exactly 3/4 of hee haw, then fucked off.

poprock

He’ll try it, the shitrag. And he’ll get an absolute fucktonne of press down in England, even if he’s mostly ignored up here. He will do more harm than good, for certain.

Diluted Dante

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