Retro Club - Shinobi III (Megadrive)
  • davyK
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    Wow - Sonic Jam is packed with content - despite having this for ages I've never really delved that much into it - there's additional TT modes for each and every level, a rush mode for the bonus levels, and a new slightly remixed mode for each game along with all the archive stuff (ads, soundtracks, artwork etc) in the small 3D "Sonic World" section.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • Moot_Geeza wrote:
    Thanks to save states and a pretty good memory for secret areas, I'm able to turn into Super Sonic by level 3-2. Aboslutely loving it.
    Man... Still prefer the timeless austerity of the first game's art (sound and graphic synergy), but accept that S&K is a good game...

    I didn't get my Megadrive until a few weeks after Sonic 2sday.  By that time, although I'd marvelled at the original many times round a mate's house (and it came free with my 2nd hand machine), I'd convinced myself that the MS version was better, so that's always remained a favourite.  S&K was a great excuse not to remain disappointed with Sonic 3, which I thought was a bit of a let-down as a standalone game.  Six levels, although good fun, with two stages each was a bit cheeky compared to Sonic 2 (or even the first game, which had three stages to most levels). 

    Davy - iirc the ports in the PAL Sonic Jam were still 17.5% slower than intended.  I'd have to dig out back issues of the official Saturn mag to confirm, as a Google search yields conflicting reports.  I must say this didn't bother me at the time, as I'd never played the games at their original speed, but in hindsight it's a shame.  At least Sega pulled their finger out in style when they launched the DC.
  • I'm currently drunk. I have started playing this and have a lot to say about it and 1 and 2. I'll talk a bout my history of the series up to this point like moot and post a review within the week. Until then... More Coors!
    オレノナハ エラー ダ
  • Disappointing final boss of Sonic 3 defeated, I've just landed in Mushroom Hill Zone at the start of S&K. 

    Icecap Zone still gets two thumbs up.
  • davyK
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    I'm finding it quite tough as I'm quite the Sonic newbie. I never really persevered beyond Spring Zone in Sonic 1 as I didn't like the way those levels look the same wherever you are in them and the on-rails sections get old fast.

    Still - finding it enjoyable even though I'm not really progressing that well. The underwater sections are a bit annoying though.

    Re speed diff - I must get the MD out tomorrow night and try Sonic 1 & 2 at 60hz to see if I can discern any speed differences.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • It's interesting to see what you think of it then, because although I was staunchly in the Sega camp as a kid, it's quite obvious to me now that the Mario games were superior. Donkey Kong Country is probably a closer match in terms of quality, but even then, unless you're familiar with the less precise Sonic controls and idiosyncrasies of the design, it's likely the more straightforward DKC would have more appeal. Hmm, I'm rambling a bit.

    Basically, I wonder how much I'd like Sonic if I approached it today with fresh eyes and untinted specs.
  • davyK
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    I was never that taken with Sonic 1 back in the day - thought the first zone looked and played great but it was downhill after the first zone and so I kind of lost interest in it from point on. Oddly though - I now quite enjoy the Marble Zone in the first game as it is reminiscent of Mario fortress levels in many ways.

    I can remember magazines comparing Sonic 1 and Super Mario World and thinking they were mad - they simply are not in the same league. Sonic 1 has a tough time going up against the All Stars version of SMB1 never mind the perfection that is SMW.

    Doesn't mean the games aren't very good of course - because they are - but I do prefer the stripped down purity of the first game.

    I thought DKC was "nice" but never really saw the fuss once past the graphics as the gameplay on most levels was pretty formulaic - I did complete it though - but I never sought out the next 2 in the series which from what I hear are better.



    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • dynamiteReady
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    davyK wrote:
    I now quite enjoy the Marble Zone in the first game as it is reminiscent of Mario fortress levels in many ways.
     
    Interesting thought that...

    davyK wrote:
    ...I do prefer the stripped down purity of the first game...

    Still one of the most stylish games ever made...
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • Just finished Hydrocity Zone.

    Moot... what's the difference between Sonic 3 & Knuckles and just Sonic 3?

    This was one of my problems with it when it originally came out, I was just confused as to what was what.

    Sonic and Sonic 2 will always hold a special place in my gaming memories. Some people put them down but it's what made me want a Mega Drive more than any other game, Road Rash coming a close second.

    For some reason I wasn't hyped about 3, neither were any of my Mega Drive owning friends/family. I'm not sure why... impending Saturn/PS? Sega's rep already down a bit from 32X? Was there just too much Sonic in a short amount of time?

    Same thing happened with Sonic CD although I didn't know anyone with a Mega CD so thats a bit easier to explain.

    Basically I don't like this as much as 1 or 2 and I'm not quite sure why tbh. Everything is here but something just isn't clicking for me.
    オレノナハ エラー ダ
  • davyK
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    Just compared Sonic 1 PAL on a MD at 60Hz vs PAL Sonic 1 on Sonic Jam....the MD game feels faster but I think the Sonic Jam version is faster than the MD original at 50Hz.

    Without a side by side comparison I can't say by how much - the 60Hz game also gives a bigger picture which will feel faster too..but i think overall Sonic Jam PAL hasn't been fully speed optimised which is a shame as most main 1st party titles got speed optimised on Saturn. Might be worth picking up the JPN version for my white Saturn as it will probably be pretty cheap - I've done that for the other main titles like Sega Rally, VF2 etc.

    Back with Sonic & Knuckles + Sonic 3 - got to Eggman on Hydrocity Zone - think that's world 2? Had hit him quite a few times and it was getting annoying before losing my last life,,,,
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • Just finished Hydrocity Zone. Moot... what's the difference between Sonic 3 & Knuckles and just Sonic 3?

    With S&K added, whilst playing as Knuckles there are areas to the Sonic 3 levels that can be broken through/climbed that weren't accessible as Sonic.  Otherwise, if playing as Sonic, it's basically just the two games back to back, albeit with super emeralds for the latter half of the game, meaning you can potentially unlock Hyper Sonic for the S&K levels (collecting the emeralds in the Sonic 3 half rewards you with Super Sonic, but that ability is removed at the start of the S&K levels).  Also there are some different music/SFX if the carts are combined.  There's an extra level at the end of S&K, where you're chasing Robotnik as Hyper Sonic in space, but off the top of my head I can't recall if you get that in the standalone game if you collect the seven emeralds.
  • what's the difference between Sonic 3 & Knuckles and just Sonic 3?
    They were both originally just Sonic 3 but got lengthy enough to become two games.

    Sonic 3 continues directly into Sonic and Knuckles if you have one plugged into 'tother. 
    Doing so enables the use of Sonic 3's save system for the entirety, allows you to play through Sonic 3 as Knuckles too. The Sonic 3 Knuckles campaign is different to Sonic's with slightly different level design, unlike when you plug Sonic 2 in and receive the same levels to be played as knuckles.

    There are also 2 sets of emeralds to collect, one for each game. Getting all 14 (iirc) emeralds and finishing both games will unlock the Mecha Sonic boss fight.
  • Worth noting that you can 100% both game's stages then use the level select to go back to easier levels and gather the emeralds missed before. I think you will have to repeat the S&K final boss to face off against Mecha Sonic.

    On Mega Drive anyway. No idea about Sonic Jam or other versions.
  • I think you will have to repeat the S&K final boss to face off against Mecha Sonic. On Mega Drive anyway. No idea about Sonic Jam or other versions.

    I just Googled this, and I think I managed to miss this as a kid.  Not quite sure how, but it doesn't ring any bells. 

    I always thought this was the last level:

  • Ah, I may be mistaken.
    Mecha Sonic is the finale as Knuckles according to this, likewise it has been a while.
  • Even so, I don't remember it.  Maybe I never finished it as Knuckles.  I wish I'd played as the echidna this week now.
  • Yeah probabley, I know I did it with both but the lines blur a lot.

    Just found this...
    If Knuckles has collected all of the Chaos Emeralds (and, if playingSonic 3 & Knuckles, all of the Super Emeralds), then Super Mecha Sonic is totally destroyed at the end of the boss battle. However, if the Emeralds have not all been collected, Mecha Sonic reappears at the end of the credits, sparking and with glowing red eyes on top of the Master Emerald.
    So getting all emeralds then beating Mecha will give Knuckles true ending.
  • Would love to join you guys with these again but Sandopolis Zone Act 2 pisses me off more than words can express.
  • All this just sounds more confusing to me.

    Like davyK I just prefer the stripped down purity of the original.

    I will persevere though and finish this, its still a great game and a true Sonic game. That's reason enough.
    オレノナハ エラー ダ
  • We are making it confusing by being confused to be fair.

    Just play through and enjoy it, then if you want to you can go back for the emeralds and the extra boss and if you really enjoy it you can play through again as another character for a tweaked experience. It is quite advanced for it's age and has a fuck ton of content for the MD.
  • Would love to join you guys with these again but Sandopolis Zone Act 2 pisses me off more than words can express.

    I'm pretty sure that's the only stage where the time limit was ever really an issue in Sonic....in fact, I vaguely remember a restart point saving my time at 8mins or so, and not having enough time to finish the stage whenever I died, although perhaps that second part is just my bad memory.
  • davyK
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    Timeouts are optional in Sonic Jam.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • That is handy Davey, not sure why Sonic ever really needed them.

    @Moot
    It is easily do-able in the time but has that infinite falling section that can royally screw you over. I swear the XBLA version is borked too, I can't complete that zone for love nor money, there is a segment with the ghosts and rising sand where even with perfect timing it is incredibly tight. It was never that hard on the MD.
  • Completed this on Tuesday, with all super emeralds. Great fun, this has been one of my favourite weeks/fortnights so far. I never owned S&K as a teenager but borrowed it/rented it from Ritz a few times. Not much of a game on it's own really, in hindsight, moreso than Sonic 3 perhaps, but 'the original vision' of both games as a whole is certainly superb.

    Icecap Zone, Flying Battery Zone, Sky Sanctuary Zone - the themes for each would be well up there in a Sonic music greatest hits.

    Sonic 3: 86%
    Sonic & Knuckles: 82%
    Sonic & Knuckles + Sonic 3: 93%


  • オレノナハ エラー ダ
  • Just finished Marble Garden Zone.

    Bloody long levels, easy to get lost I thought.

    Great boss though, it's an air battle with Tales holding you whilst Robotnik flys in and out of the screen using sprite scaling ala Bowser at the end of Mario World. Very impressive graphically I thought, this and Castlevania Bloodlines really show off what the MD was capable of imo.
    オレノナハ エラー ダ
  • davyK
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    Picked up Sonic Mega Collection today for Gamecube - plays at 60Hz so that's an improvement - however I think I have to play some games for a set number of times before being able to play the lock on modes....

    Nice package though - has the Sonic themed Puyo Puyo game and a few others in addition to Sonic1,2,3 & Knuckles......apparently Ristar is in then there somewhere.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • davyK wrote:
    Picked up Sonic Mega Collection today for Gamecube - plays at 60Hz so that's an improvement - however I think I have to finish some games before being able to play the lock on modes....

    Nice package though - has the Sonic themed Puyo Puyo game and a few others in addition to Sonic1,2,3 & Knuckles.

    Get Gems collection to. It has Sonic CD plus tons of 8Bit Sonic goodness
    オレノナハ エラー ダ
  • davyK
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    will keep an eye out for that...
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • I wonder how many times I would have sat through that Wonderman video for the snippets of Sonic 3 footage if I'd had it on VHS before the game launched.  Probably dozens. 

    I was thinking about it today, and I reckon Sonic 3 was the most I've ever looked forward to a game - I certainly bought a record number of mags in one month to read about it (all of them).  A fuller list of the games I've gone a bit mad for leading up to their release: Sonic The Hedgehog (MS), SFII: Special Championship Edition, Sonic 3, Landstalker, Virtua Fighter II, Dark Savior, Zelda OOT, Shenmue, Ecco DC, Halo 3 and Trials Evolution.

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