Retro Club - 8 & 16-bit puzzlers - The Bear and Badger

davyK

I've been playing this on the Saturn today. It's a JPN only release on the Sega Ages series. It only has the original arcade game but there's an option screen that is expanding the more I play. So far I can set the auto fire rate (from 4 up to 30/sec), option to continue and something called shot power that can be set to "decrease" or "no decrease" - no idea what that does.

Playing at default I can get to level 3 and score 60Kodd. Set the auto fire to 10/sec and it makes a difference - able to get to level 4 - high score of 89K. Gorgeous game on the Saturn and the music especially on level 1 is splendid.

This version also lets you record your runs and there are 3 staff runs to peruse - "assault", "hardest" and" trick play". When watching replays you can choose the arrange music with optional Japanese female vocals. Marvellous. I miss Sega.

Moot_Geeza

Found a video of the Sega 3D Ages release on PS2, which I expected to look horrible, but it looks OK:

3mins40 for the new bits.

davyK

Fancy a few entries in that series...what's involved in playing JPN PS2 games? Better just getting a JPN console or is there a Freeloader style boot disc?

Hodgepodge

Can someone suggest which entry to play first as a relative newcomer to the series?

I vaguely remember playing the Mega Drive one for a short burst at a friends house with I was a young 'un, but cannot remember anything about the mechanics.

Moot_Geeza

I would have said the Master System version of the original until this morning, a really good port. However, from the time I've spent on the sequel throughout the day I'd say everything but the music is better in no.2, which appears less memorable (but that could simply be because I have no memories of it).

davyK

Hodgepodge wrote:

Can someone suggest which entry to play first as a relative newcomer to the series? I vaguely remember playing the Mega Drive one for a short burst at a friends house with I was a young 'un, but cannot remember anything about the mechanics.

I can only vouch for the original - but that's the Saturn version which is an accurate port of the arcade original. The Master System versions are probably for a nostalgia kick - I suspect the MD version won't be bad which is one of the sequels (Super?) that will have more gameplay features.

The 1st game is fairly basic - destroy the enemy bases spread over a horizontally scrolling level, using the radar a la Defender to find them and grab the coins dropped by shot enemies and bases to power up in the shop. Each level ends with a boss encounter. It's somewhat more than the sum of its parts as it has the Sega magic woven in. The cute graphics might put some off but I love it.

Hodgepodge

Cheers guys, think I'll plump for the MS sequel and see how I get on.

davyK

109,600 level 5.

Are people using auto fire? I just can't face playing without it.

Found out what the "no decrease" mode is - means your power up shot doesn't have the timed meter and doesn't run out unless you lose life. That's close to cheating so I have left it disabled.

There's a USA mode (JAPAN mode is default). Keeps different hi scores so it must be different - can't see how though. And if you hold down A + C and press Start at the Sega Ages logo you get arcade mode. You need to add credits and there's no option menu though it takes on the settings from the option menu. It keeps the same hi score table as the main game in JAPAN mode.

Tactics wise I go for the wide shot on level 2 and the 7 way on level 3 onwards for crowd control. Take the 5,000 coin extra life too. I use the big wings as the engines just move too quick for me.

Moot_Geeza

I'm pretty sure I used to use the aptly named Rapid Fire Unit for the master System when playing this.

That's not what my box looked like iirc. The Master System fills me with a warmer sense of nostalgia than any other console. I just saw a screenshot of the original RF unit whilst looking for the pic above, and felt pleasant feelings wash over me.

Edit: If I can get MAME running on this handheld I'll have a crack at your scores later in the week Davy.

davyK

Saturn version running.

Moot_Geeza

I've hit a bit of a wall in Fantasy Zone II. I'm trying to get a feel for the game by only using save states at the beginning of each stage, but level 5 is kicking my arse. I think I've been too thrifty with my shopping; I seem to have quite a lot of spare cash.

Stunning game btw, probably the best MS shooter (Power Strike never did it for me, although it had a good version of R-Type).

davyK

Level 5 on the original is a wall too - the sheer number of enemies from the off is frightening - once the powerup runs out I get overrun.

JonB

I've been saving at the start of a level and in shops, which is a bit cheeky I guess. Level 5 is a definite step up in difficulty. I made it to level 8 earlier (the last one), after taking a while to get through 7. It amazes me now but I used to do the whole game and only lose a life on the final level every time.

The key to success seems to be in finding the hidden stuff. There are hidden shops which sell interesting things, including bottles that extend or refill your life meter. You have to shoot a particular point for a while to make them appear. I've found one on level 3, 5 and 6. There are also a couple of spots where you can shoot to reveal bottles in the levels.

Buying extra lives when possible is also a good idea. And get twin or twin big bombs and big shot wherever possible.

Also, a trick for level 5:

Spoiler:

Moot_Geeza

Will try the trick, cheers.

JonB wrote:

It amazes me now but I used to do the whole game and only lose a life on the final level every time. The key to success seems to be in finding the hidden stuff.

I recently found a diary I kept in 1995, which alongside an array of cringeworthy entries about girls and how good the sex scenes in Basic Instinct were, contains a vast amount of videogame stuff (I'd mention what I was playing or thinking about pretty much every other day). According to one entry, I decided to revisit Ecco the Dolphin on a whim one Sunday and completed it, seemingly with little fuss (although I did point out it was a lot harder than The Tides of Time). I can't imagine beating that game these days - it was insanely difficult. I also completed Sub-Terrania with two lives left apparently; a game that defeated me with save states when we played it last year.

Anyway, I had the foresight to include the following list:

I think I mentioned being able to complete Wardner when Davy mentioned it recently. I guess I got that wrong.

Moot_Geeza

I've just spotted another lie there actually. I didn't complete 'Alladin' in one go - I turned it off whilst fighting Jaffar because I didn't want to beat it on my first go as I'd just spent £44.99 on it, so it was actually my second go. An odd decision in hindsight, but I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

davyK

Was that MD Wardner? Think that's worth a few bob now. I played the arcade version via MAME - was able to 1CC it as I got pretty obsessed with it.

Moot_Geeza

Yeah, I got the Japanese version with the Megadrive my dad bought from a colleague. Maybe it was the American version actually, but either way it's long gone. I did find my Japanese copy of El Viento at the weekend though.

I seem to remember that you could get stuck on Wardner if you chose the wrong weapon? There was one that fired in a sort of loop. Anyway, perhaps I completed it later on, but I couldn't do it as an early teen.

davyK

Can't remember - the arcade version had this narrow beam weapon - and I suspect if you didn't pick that you would be in a world of pain in the castle as the enemies there were very durable.

[Deleted User]

I read Fantasy Zone and immediately assumed jrpg.
Massively did not realise it was that egg thing from Sonic Racing (sorry non retro expert).

Seems odd for the Saturn to has such an 8bit looking game, that look is appreciated as a style now but back then I seem to remember it being a bit of a graphics war

Moot_Geeza

The Saturn version is a faithful port of the arcade original (1986) I think, with extra modes etc chucked in. Seems like a bit of a swizz that they didn't include the other ports/sequels as a proper Sega Ages collection.

[Deleted User]

Ok cool. It looks lovely from that vid, framerate is sharp.
Still seems an odd release. Guess it must have been a 10 year anniversary. (Wow that makes me feel old, I am the same age as the game we are discussing.[og not Saturn port])

Moot_Geeza

Just found out I am roughly the same age as Galaga.

davyK

Liveinadive wrote:

Ok cool. It looks lovely from that vid, framerate is sharp.
Still seems an odd release. Guess it must have been a 10 year anniversary. (Wow that makes me feel old, I am the same age as the game we are discussing.[og not Saturn port])

It's a rock solid version - which it should be given then it's age and the fact that the Saturn was running solid ports of stuff like DoDonPachi.

It is a pity that there are no other versions on the disc but the Saturn Sega Ages collection was like that. In PAL land Sega Ages Vol. 1 got Space Harrier, Afterburner II and Outrun all on one disc - in Japan each title was released separately , though they did have some extras that the PAL versions didn't have.

Sadly we got no other PAL Sega Ages releases on Saturn. I've heard of a JPN Sega Ages Wonderboy release for Saturn.

JonB

I done it. Finished with save states then immediately went back and ran through it again without save states. Had a couple of lives left at the end. Doing it without dying is essential to a good score since you get 1 million points for each, but I'll settle for just finishing it properly. Bizarrely unnecessary bit of narrative at the end too.

Excellent game overall. Still a favourite after 25 years.

davyK

shmups.com states that you get (lives*1m) + (gold*10) as a loop bonus. - So not spending too much helps score too. (FZ1)

There are guys there tracking "no shopping" + "no rapid shot" hi-scores too. Hardcore.

shmups.com also talks about a "good ending" in FZ2 by using something called the tear drop on the final boss. There are also loop conditions in FZ2.

retroking1981

Moot_Geeza wrote:

Seems like a bit of a swizz that they didn't include the other ports/sequels as a proper Sega Ages collection.

JonB

davyK wrote:

shmups.com states that you get (lives*1m) + (gold*10) as a loop bonus. - So not spending too much helps score too. (FZ1) There are guys there tracking "no shopping" + "no rapid shot" hi-scores too. Hardcore. shmups.com also talks about a "good ending" in FZ2 by using something called the tear drop on the final boss. There are also loop conditions in FZ2.

Have you got a link? I couldn't find it on the site.

davyK

FZ1 : http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=5308

FZ2 : http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=34147

Moot_Geeza

retroking1981 wrote:

Moot_Geeza wrote:

Seems like a bit of a swizz that they didn't include the other ports/sequels as a proper Sega Ages collection.

Pushing the boat out on a non-Sega console eh? That's like when Edge used to give away fancy postcards to new subscribers.

davyK

In a post Sega hardware world that's what they had to do. Wouldn't mind getting a JPN PS2 as Sega pushed out loads of these collections.

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