Retro Club - 8 & 16-bit puzzlers - The Bear and Badger

Moot_Geeza

hunk wrote:

The 16-bit versions are a different beast tho. The influence of the blue blur is definitely in there.

Even down to the Sonic leg wheel in the MD one. The opening stages definitely feel like a Sonic rip. I thought the map screen was a bit blatant too, particularly the music (SMB influence).

That NES one is something else though. The cheek of it!

davyK

There's nothing quite like the inertia in the SMB games. It's what made them so good to play

hunk

Also, Contra HC just might be the first (succesful?) implementation of dodge/slide to evade attacks dark souls style?
Well, except for Gunstar Heroes of course.

davyK

I really didn't like Gunstar Heroes. It felt uncontrollable. When I get hit in Contra or Metal Slug I feel it's my fault but not with Gunstar Heroes. I just didn't click with it.

Eric

On the back of Moots declaration that Hardcorps is a better game than Gunstar Heroes, I bought the collection (I think it was only £3). I've always bounced off it as being too difficult so looking forward to testing my nerve against it.

Gunstar Heroes is just the perfect accessible run and gun to me, great bosses, wonderful weapon mechanics, 2 player coop but and most of all for me a huge hit of nostalgia.

I get it doesn't feel as tight as Contra and I think that's why you have a 100% life bar opposed to one hit kills. But it still sits there as one of the all timers for me.

Contra won't be getting any nostalgia points but I look forward to the challenge. I'm guessing (hoping) it's not as tough as Probotector!

davyK

I think the life bar thing is what put me off. It's just a bit too manic for my tastes. There's a lot to like - I thought the weapon combining was very clever for example; especially for the time.

I love a bit of Contra. I got it on NES (is called Probotector in PAL) and played it to death. The SNES one is great but I never clicked with it quite as much but it's brilliant. I'm not a fan of the overhead levels in it. Contra Rebirth on WiiWare is excellent too - it's a real rip roarer - the robot camel section is a hoot.
There's a PS2 Contra game - I have the JP version called Shin Contra I think? Haven't got deep into it but it's in the great old school style unlike Neo Contra which is still a nice game but it isn't in the classic 2D side on mold. It's a bit more like Cannon Spike.

hunk

Without Gunstar Heroes there would arguably be no Metal Slug as we know it. Gunstar Heroes is more accessible and innovative than Contra HC. The life bar, weapons system and the melee combat are what set it apart from the rest. It was a milestone at release and Contra/Metal Slug definitely riffed off of it.

Not sure why they took out the life bar in the US release of hardcore. The JP rom was perfectly balanced.

Moot_Geeza

The high points of Gunstar trump any sections of the MD Contra for me. Seven Force and the dice stage are both outstanding. It's a great game but Hard Corps just pips it, maybe. Ask me again tomorrow. Good luck Eric, Valfaris next!

Alien Soldier is the one I've always bounced off. On paper it's perfect for me but I've tried to get a feel for it a few times without success.

Eric

Good to see you've played through Hardcorps Uprising, that's a belter. Valfaris is in my pile of shame at the moment as is El Viento!

Gaming time is all too limited at the moment and I'm blaming the Art of Rally for getting its hooks in.

retroking1981

davyK wrote:

There's a PS2 Contra game - I have the JP version called Shin Contra I think? Haven't got deep into it but it's in the great old school style unlike Neo Contra which is still a nice game but it isn't in the classic 2D side on mold. It's a bit more like Cannon Spike.

Best Contra imo, bloody excellent, took an age to Master. Few people seem to have played it as it was bang in the middle of 3D being the be all and end all on home consoles.

retroking1981

ChopperByrne wrote:

Speaking of Konami Retro, and Tiny Toons.

https://twitter.com/DisplacedGamers/status/1445049758217818115?s=20

Very interesting. After finnally playing the MD game I definitely think the NES version is the pick if the 3 for me, looks like there's a good reason behind why.

retroking1981

Moot_Geeza wrote:

Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster's Hidden Treasure - Megadrive (2hrs)

I had this in 1993, bought after glowing reports in numerous magazines of the day. Sega's Power, Force and Pro, Megatech, Mega, Mean Machines Sega, Mega Action, Sega Megadrive Advanced Gaming and the rest; I'm pretty sure they all gave it the double thumbs up somewhere in the 80s/low 90s range. And having owned this at the time, coupled with a refresher course over the weekend, I can confirm that that's exactly what this is - an 89% kind of 16-bit platformer. It doesn't go the extra mile to be truly considered alongside the genre greats of the era but it does do enough to get a mention in dispatches. For comparison's sake, it'd be bobbing around the outskirts of a top ten alongside the likes of Magical Flying Hat Turbo Adventures, Toejam & Earl 2, Addams Family and Demon's Crest, and might even squeeze into a MD only list.

I'm astonished this is a 4-meg cart, to the point where I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't double checked the size of the ROM. Anyone doubting Konami's prowess as developers in the early 90s need look no further than this really - it's a looker, with way above average sprites and animation, solid audio and a lengthy quest. This was one of their first efforts on MD hardware too. The bosses are one of a kind battles and mostly well designed (if a little on the easy side). The levels are punctuated by a Mario style map screen, and there are even a few hidden exits/stages to find. Gameplay is solid, with unexpected flourishes such as a wall jump and a high bounce if you time the head bops correctly. Basically, it's kind of a big deal - this isn't some flotsam & jetsam licensed platformer, it's a legit attempt to make a good game. As previously mentioned, the gotcha traps are a bit off when it comes to hazards and enemy placement, but this can be mitigated by careful play. The swimming sections are poor, and there's not quite enough variety in the main stages for this to be considered for inclusion in the toppest tier, but if you can get used to the elasticated jump and slightly derivative action there's a very good game here. 89%

Moot_Geeza wrote:

And I added Hyperstone Heist to the list this morning. Quick capsule reviews!

Contra: Hard Corps - MD (70mins)

I'd played this in Probotector guise once or twice - once near launch when I either borrowed or rented it - but filed it alongside Batman & Robin in the 'lovely stuff but too difficult' zone. According to a spot of recent research the JPN release is the easiest and the NTSC-U/PAL versions are roughly on par, despite major cosmetic changes to the latter. Maybe I had my gaming hat on last night, but I found it much more tamable than I remember. I watched a Youtube guide first and mimicked the Jack/top routes/reliance on weapon C tactics, and felt like I was legitimately cutting my way through it, albeit with judicial use of save states. Some mags gave this huge scores at the time - 94% in the Official Sega Magazine iirc - and the more I played the more I realised it probably deserved it. I've not played a lot of Contra in my time (I've probably played more Blazing Chrome tbh), but this is seriously legit. Like, marginally better than Gunstar Heroes legit. Really enjoyed it, and the branching paths mean that this wasn't a one-off-the-wrist Megadrive effort either. Super strong gameplay, big sounds and some neat visual effects help push this somewhere close to the top 10 MD games ever. Absolutely brilliant, I'm shocked that it took me this long to fully appreciate it. 93%

Sunset Riders - SNES (80mins)

Terrific arcade action, non-stop coin dropping fun. Polished and chunky with sampled speech aplenty and a nasty-but-fair gameplay loop. It's basic compared to plenty of 16-bit games but the simplicity makes it sing. Loved it, my only complaint is that some of the bosses just felt a touch too evil. 88%

Sunset Riders - Megadrive (40mins)

I knew the MD version took a hit in certain ways but wasn't prepared for this level of nerfing, this stands out as a hugely inferior port when played back to back. Gameplay wise it's similar, and the graphics are a decent enough approximation, but the length is a joke. Not only are half the levels missing but the brilliant Hogan's Alley style bonus stages are replaced with weak wagon chases. Still fun, but boy does this get pulverised in a head to head. 79%

TMNT: The Hyperstone Heist - MD (50mins)

I loved the arcade original but it's an evil coin guzzler at heart, the console follow ups were much more balanced. Big fan of the speedy, fluid brawling in this and can't imagine ever booting this (or Turtles in Time) up without having fun. Not the longest and never would've won any prizes for variety but an absolute blast to play. The diagonal downwards kick has to be the most iconic aerial attack in scrolling beat 'em up history. Can't wait for the upcoming spiritual successor. 86%

Also off the back of these I now want to see moots opinions on:

Contra III - SNES
Turtles in Time - SNES
Tiny Toons - SNES
Tiny Toons - NES

EvilRedEye

Having dumped the whole Mega Drive library on the Mega SD, I should have a go at this. Shocked at the disinterest in the Rocket Knight Adventures games though, what is wrong with you people???

monkey

Played that last year.

retroking1981

Yeah, and both 16-Bit Sparkster sequels.

EvilRedEye

GOOD. Thought it was a bit weird they were being ignored!

retroking1981

The OG on MD was superb.

Moot_Geeza

Yep, I've played Rocket Knight Adventures a few times over the years. One of the best 16-bit games on any system imo.

Just played through Contra III at retro's request. Thoughts later.

Moot_Geeza

Definitely got my thread mojo back.

Moot_Geeza

retroking1981 wrote:

Also off the back of these I now want to see moots opinions on: Contra III - SNES Turtles in Time - SNES Tiny Toons - SNES Tiny Toons - NES

Managed to squeeze the first two in today.

Contra III - SNES (40mins)

Very good, albeit not quite the grandaddy of the genre I was expecting. It's tight and well crafted but the top down sections - although not bad in their own right - are unwelcome for a retro playthrough and without them there's only around 30 minutes of gameplay (once the patterns and layouts are learned, ofc). I was under the impression this was the Castlevania IV of Contra games, the swinging dick of the 16-bit entries, so to speak, but I think Hard Corps edges it for a few reasons, chiefly the length and multiple route options. Times moved quickly in the early 90s and this would feel like the older game in a Pepsi challenge. Cracking game with some excellent moments (the boss battle while hanging from missiles is immense) but superceded by its younger brother imo. 88%

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time - SNES (45mins)

Hyperstone Heist is basically just a slightly shorter reworking of this. The MD version looks and sounds great but the SNES game looks and sounds better - even on an emulator it just sounds more like an arcade cabinet, with better music and more sampled speech. It's more playful than the MD game too, thanks to the knockabout time travelling stages. There's not much in it but this gets the nod as throwing footsoldiers into the camera never gets old. I still can't work out why you'd want to pick Raphael as Donatello's reach is so OP, but this is true of all Konami TMNT imo. At least Raph had the best special in the original arcade game, it's pretty weak here. All specials are kinda redundant in this as they drain too much of your own health though, so it's a moot point. Again, this is a problem in Hyperstone too. Quality game, would have played it to death back in the day. 87%

Moot_Geeza

And this was my take on Buster Busts Loose in 2012:

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I finished this yesterday. SNES emulation is an absolute nightmare on my handheld (it plays fine, but tends to require a full reset when you save), but I stuck with it. I thought the vertically scrolling dash level towards the end was quite tricky, I managed to lose tons of lives there. The brief American Football level was a highlight, although it was pretty much a mini game, which made a short game even shorter as it counted as level three, but was a nice change in pace. Some amusing fourth wall breaking dialogue too; very Tiny Toons, as I recall. I'm not sure if I prefer it to the Megadrive game or not. Brooks' assessment of the Sega version at the top of the page seems spot on, although I haven't played it for years I do seem to remember it being a bit samey. I think I'll give the SNES one 85%, for what it's worth.

retroking1981

Nice.

One thing that a lot of people don't remember/know regarding the overhead sections of Contra III is that changing things up was a series staple back then.

The first game on the NES had the into the screen sections and the sequel had vertical scrolling levels akin to Mercs/Ikari Warriors etc.

davyK

Aye. The into-the-screen levels were great fun. The overheads were a bit tedious.

I'm of a mind to check out the MD Contra now.

Moot_Geeza

Didn't Blazing Chrome mimic the changing things up approach on occasion? Might be mixing it up with another game but I vaguely remember a nifty looking into the screen tunnel section towards the end. Good game that.

Am I right in thinking that you can't lock the direction you're facing in on the 16-bit games? Unless I missed a button that was added in a later entry. It's present in the 360 game but I guess it may have been in the PS2/DS games too?

Was there a Contra Rebirth on Wii?

Quite into the series rn...

Eric

I played Contra Hard Corps last night and bounced off it hard. It's just too difficult, I don't know how you did it Moot unless it was a save state fest, it seems just as difficult as Probotector to me.

retroking1981

Yeah, the difficulty has always been an issue for me.

Gonna give it a crack at the weekend though.

retroking1981

Moot_Geeza wrote:

Am I right in thinking that you can't lock the direction you're facing in on the 16-bit games? Unless I missed a button that was added in a later entry. It's present in the 360 game but I guess it may have been in the PS2/DS games too?

Was there a Contra Rebirth on Wii?

Quite into the series rn...

The SNES one you can lock your character into place but only on the PS2 one can you lock the direction your shooting afaik. Really is the pick of the bunch imo.

Yes, Contra Rebirth is decent.

Speaking of the DS game, thats another one ruined by the difficulty, even harder than the MD game from memory.

Moot_Geeza

I watched a tactics video first, made sure I picked the robot and the top route option each time and also remembered roughly which weapon to use where (the yoyo thing wrecks bosses if you can hold onto it). It didn't feel like I was save spamming but I probably was, I definitely did with Contra III. Will have another go today.

Funkstain

Yeah I was well impressed with your completion time for contra III / Super Probotector, I could barely get through it back in the day, till I remembered save states. Does it take any of the pleasure away? I used to feel a real sense of satisfaction upon beating a nasty boss (the two huge terminator style robot bosses in the closed space were particularly shitty)

Moot_Geeza

It depends on the game for me, in terms of satisfaction. Ideally you'd learn a game like Contra by chipping away at it failure after failure. Even with my retro cap on I'm not up for that these days. You can use save states while getting a feel for the difficulty, but overuse doesn't really teach you how to play the game. YMMV.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories