Nintendo Switch - The Bear and Badger

retroking1981

WorKid wrote:

My wii still gets play.

I was genuinely shocked last boxing day at going back to a mates house and ending up playing Wii bowling pissed. His family come back from his in laws and we ended up all playing together.

His son had a PS4 sitting there, no one cared even him.

Was as fun as it was Xmas 2006. Made me wonder how many people outside enthusiasts still have 10 year old consoles still set up?

Yossarian

Liveinadive wrote:

One thing that helped the Wii attach rate is that the console is solid as fuck. Most 360 owners had at least 2 units and early PS3s had their problems.

I'm not sure about most. The early machines had issues, but those were ironed out in the later models. I've owned 1 360 and it's still going strong.

[Deleted User]

I wouldnt even know how to get data either way but it was a big deal, I had 3 units. There were also people who upgraded to a slim version, although I guess if they sold it the new owner still counts.

Yossarian

The data is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems#.22General_Hardware_Failure.22_errors

It definitely was a big deal, but I'm unconvinced it affected more than 50% of owners, I'm not sure if they even sold 50% of their models before 2009 when the issue was apparently fixed.

[Deleted User]

I mean, my original point was that the Wii was solid while the other consoles had problems and that will aid the high attach rate of the Wii when comparing it to those other consoles.

Yossarian

Fair play, although I wouldn't have thought replacements would affect attach rates, but repurchasing would.

[Deleted User]

Im assuming repurchase on failure but it is an assumption. Even failure rates are impossible to tell, the only real data we can get is what MS told us and even if true can't account for failed consoles that weren't sent back to them.
Anecdotal but I didnt send either of my failed 360s back, the first failed while they were in denial mode, the other was a Jasper Elite that didnt fall under the free fix policy. Both went on eBay for parts.

[Deleted User]

retroking1981 wrote:

Console attach rates are typically 5-12 games.

What? Seriously? Who the fuck are these people?

[Deleted User]

Anyway, lets bring this back to the Switch.

I will be interested to see what the failure rate ends up being on Switch. Nintendo are normally very reliable and have high standards, however this is a complex machine to be squished into a handheld. If it is as solid as their other hardware then that will be pretty impressive.

Those that went to the event. Did you get hands on with the unit in handheld mode? If yes, how hot were they?

mistercrayon

I guess both the hd consoles did have updated models, all of which Could have zero games bought for them.

[Deleted User]

Andy wrote:

Console attach rates are typically 5-12 games.

What? Seriously? Who the fuck are these people?

Too low?
What you have to remember is only new purchases can be counted. Im sure there are a lot of people who rarely buy new.

I wonder if we are counting GWG and PS+ towards this as well now. I cant be the only person that has been claiming games and never even downloading them.

Yossarian

I doubt that GwG/PS+ would be included, it's a measure of sales, not freebies.

[Deleted User]

Not that argument again Yoss

Seriously though, I wouldnt put it past MS and Sony to count them as sales, even if at £0. Sales numbers flatter companies and please share holders.

Vela

Yossarian wrote:

The data is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems#.22General_Hardware_Failure.22_errors It definitely was a big deal, but I'm unconvinced it affected more than 50% of owners, I'm not sure if they even sold 50% of their models before 2009 when the issue was apparently fixed.

It probably affected 50 percent of owners before the 2009 revision or close to it. It was an intrinsic design flaw courtesy of a rush to market.

Last gen is an interesting example and probably the high watermark for the console industry. A runaway success in Wii. A Microsoft console that burned early adopters and still maintained a large loyal userbase, and a playstation that basically grew for the entire gen and snuck into second place.

I don't think we will ever see a console gen hit close to 300 million again.

monkey

Good news everyone! You're all right. Wii software sales peaked in 09, fell off a cliff in 2011 and loads of them gathered dust. It's a reliable console that many people still kept for ages. While it's there and doesn't need replacing and there's 100 million of them out there, software continued to sell. 200 million (roughly) software sales since 2012.

It's high attach rate comes from its long life. It's Betamax or the Walkman. A product abadoned by many but kept alive by sheer volume of those that didn't. Of the average 8-9 games Wii owners apparently bought, 2 of those have been since 2012 when it had more or less died and been replaced by the U. Another 1 was Wii Sports which was bundled with the thing but still counted as a sale. Then there's 5-6 left which is about what you'd expect given how good some of them are.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/349095/nintendo-wii-and-wii-u-software-sales/

Vela

Fuck off! This is serious business like Highlander. Only one of can be right.

retroking1981

monkey wrote:

Good news everyone! You're all right. Wii software sales peaked in 09, fell off a cliff in 2011 and loads of them gathered dust. It's a reliable console that many people still kept for ages. While it's there and doesn't need replacing and there's 100 million of them out there, software continued to sell. 200 million (roughly) software sales since 2012. It's high attach rate comes from its long life. It's Betamax or the Walkman. A product abadoned by many but kept alive by sheer volume of those that didn't. Of the average 8-9 games Wii owners apparently bought, 2 of those have been since 2012 when it had more or less died and been replaced by the U. Another 1 was Wii Sports which was bundled with the thing but still counted as a sale. Then there's 5-6 left which is about what you'd expect given how good some of them are. https://www.statista.com/statistics/349095/nintendo-wii-and-wii-u-software-sales/

You could say that about SNES, PSone and many others. It followed the common (but not set in stone) typical console lifecycle of the 3rd year peak, 5 year life cycle with a tail off in sales.

It was the 360/PS3 that broke the trend with that.

retroking1981

Monkey is right tbf.

It just applies for nearly every console ever:

Good news everyone! SNES software sales peaked in 94, fell off a cliff in 96 and loads of them gathered dust. It's a reliable console that many people still kept for ages. While it's there and doesn't need replacing and there's 49 million of them out there, software continued to sell. 80 million (roughly) software sales since 96. It's high attach rate comes from its long life. It's Betamax or the Walkman. A product abadoned by many but kept alive by sheer volume of those that didn't. Of the average 7.72 games SNES owners apparently bought, 1.6 of those have been since 96 when it had more or less died and been replaced by the N64. Another 1 was Super Mario World which was bundled with the thing but still counted as a sale. Then there's 6.12 left which is about what you'd expect given how good some of them are.

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/Tie-Ratio/Global/

My point is the Wii wasn't the dust colllector its perceived to be. But I mean that in a round about way because ALL consoles are dust collectors for most.

PSone had an attach rate of 9.23 compared to Wii's near identical 9.54.

The PSone is a betamax as much as the Wii the SNES of eventually the PS4.

All consoles get abadoned by many but kept alive by sheer volume of those that didn't.

[Deleted User]

All consoles have their weaknesses and strengths, or rationalisation for attach rate.

I would argue the PSOne had an attach rate of 9.23 because it's main rival , the N64, had 9.22 games worth owning.

retroking1981

Hope that doesn't come across as rude Monkey, I've just never brought the whole idea of the Wii being a fad any more or less than others.

6th highest attach rate ever, 4th highest selling software console ever and 5th highest selling hardware ever. Thats including handhelds to, excluding those it would be 6th, 4th and 3rd respectively.

The Wii was a popular video game console, I can't see much debate on that tbh.

retroking1981

Liveinadive wrote:

All consoles have their weaknesses and strengths, or rationalisation for attach rate. I would argue the PSOne had an attach rate of 9.23 because it's main rival , the N64, had 9.22 games worth owning.

Haha, thats not actually to far from the truth ;-)

At the same time it makes the Wii's numbers more impressive as it went up against two beasts in 360 and PS3.

To quote Vela

Vela wrote:

Last gen is an interesting example and probably the high watermark for the console industry. A runaway success in Wii. A Microsoft console that burned early adopters and still maintained a large loyal userbase, and a playstation that basically grew for the entire gen and snuck into second place. I don't think we will ever see a console gen hit close to 300 million again.

[Deleted User]

Yeah I would agree with Vela there.
It was a very cheap gen if you were smart as well. The PS3 Slim was a really, really nice console and arrived at a good price around about the best time to get on board.
Online retailers grew massively during that gen. At the start of that gen Amazon was just becoming a household name, shopto filled the middle part with insanely low prices delivered fast, Play.com came and went. There was a real race to the bottom on game pricing, it heralded in the £20 price point within a few months, without the need for a game to be tied to a Platinum range.

g.man

I think the Switch will do just fine. Once it starts building up a library of good portable titles it should really take off.

monkey

retroking1981 wrote:

Hope that doesn't come across as rude Monkey, I've just never brought the whole idea of the Wii being a fad any more or less than others.

6th highest attach rate ever, 4th highest selling software console ever and 5th highest selling hardware ever. Thats including handhelds to, excluding those it would be 6th, 4th and 3rd respectively.

The Wii was a popular video game console, I can't see much debate on that tbh.

Nah, all good. The point I was trying to make isn't that it peaked and died (you're right, you can say that about anything). It's that it's peak was so big that it's still not dead and that skews the attach rate. Put another way, they weren't still bringing out new Snes games a decade after its release. Whatever attach rate it got, it got in a shorter time. The Wii can be a short-lived fad for many and have a large amount of software sales per unit sold.

Vela

With regards to software prices it seems a few listing are emerging in Australia.

The rrp of that half baked heroes or whatever is 39 dollars which is about the same as the ac adapter.
Puyo Puyo tetris is 69 which is the same as a single joycon.

Looks like the next tier is zelda at 89 and then other full price games at 99. For reference the joycon double pack is 119.

So a few price tiers are happening. Will be interesting to see where bomberman ends up. I think 1 2 switch is 69.

Escape

Liveinadive wrote:

Did you get hands on with the unit in handheld mode? If yes, how hot were they?

It might just be my bad experience with a T100 talking, but I'd be most concerned with wear and tear on its connector. As I've said (see photo), T100s also have two latching holes.

Moot_Geeza

Vela wrote:

So a few price tiers are happening.

If those tiers settle into reasonable prices depending on content then this goes down as a very good thing in my book. Game & Wario, Captain Toad, Yoshi's Woolly World and the rest of the inbetweeners would all make excellent handheld titles, so I hope this becomes a goer for Nintendo (with Metroid/Odyssey & co. weighing in at fifty pounds). I'm pretty sure Wario/Toad/Yoshi released at a reduced RRP on WiiU, unless retailers made that decision themselves.

Eshop £4.99-14.99, best-of-both £27.99, full fat £49.99. I'd suggest the latter two tiers should have different coloured boxes.

regmcfly

Zelda Spec Ed is down £10 to £80 on Amazon.

Moot_Geeza

The Pro controller is up for £99 on Amazon. Are we still in guesswork territory or is that happening?

Moot_Geeza

Ignore that, it's hugely less extortionate but still extortionate on the Nintendo website.

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