Your assertion is based on what you want, though, just as mine is based on my requirements, and Escape's view prior to the conference (was it Escape?) about it being essential that it's hackable.

Show me the market research that says it needs that checklist to be desirable to its target demographic, or that they need those things for there to be perceived value.

hunk wrote:

Brangelina?

kinda makes sense since you can separate the various parts of the switch.

Andy wrote:

Your assertion is based on what you want, though, just as mine is based on my requirements, and Escape's view prior to the conference (was it Escape?) about it being essential that it's hackable.

Show me the market research that says it needs that checklist to be desirable to its target demographic, or that they need those things for there to be perceived value.

No, I'm not basing it on my views but those of the many, I don't need to show you anything, the WiiU has. And it'll happen again. Nintendo don't appeal to the wider audience and the things that they want, if you can't see that then you're a fool as you only need spend time with the younger generations which want an Xbox/PS not a WiiU or a Switch. Look at the best selling games, they're not on Nintendo consoles, without those it won't sell huge numbers, without huge numbers people won't make games for it, simple enough?

It'll follow the way of the Wii and Wii U. Launches, hype overload, millions sold, joy. Six months to a year down the line it'll be discarded gathering dust by many leaving the hardcore to buy a new game every three months.

Same as it ever was.

@DS
The annoying thing is it need not be that way with the back catalogue of games they have.
As it is we are offered fucking Yoshi Cookie for the month of June at $xx rental.

Bleeding edge.

Diluted Dante wrote:

Verecocha wrote:

Look at the best selling games, they're not on Nintendo consoles

Nintendo have made quite a few of them. Far more than any other company in fact.

But if you're talking third party, Minecraft, Skyrim and FIFA are coming to Switch.

I'm talking about recently, not historically. Minecraft and Skyrim?! NO FUCKING WAY HOLD THE PHONE!!!

Minecraft is huge but everyone that wants it is already embedded in wichever version they have. Skyrim?! What a joke that is. Fifa it'll be interesting to see what shape it comes in, until it sells 8 copies so they don't bother again.

I get the Pokémon thing, and if it becomes the go to Handheld then great, but then it goes full circle and people will pick it up when it's at the right price point, by which time there will be significantly less interest in it and getting third parties on board is significantly more difficult.

Diluted Dante wrote:

Verecocha wrote:

Look at the best selling games, they're not on Nintendo consoles

Nintendo have made quite a few of them. Far more than any other company in fact. But if you're talking third party, Minecraft, Skyrim and FIFA are coming to Switch.

Big sellers on other systems doesn't mean they'll be big sellers on Nintendo systems.

Dark Soldier wrote:

It'll follow the way of the Wii and Wii U. Launches, hype overload, millions sold, joy. Six months to a year down the line it'll be discarded gathering dust by many leaving the hardcore to buy a new game every three months.

Same as it ever was.

Given I have a billion games elsewhere this is never an issue for me, I wish consoles could survive as niche purchases as opposed to full fat sinkers or swimmers.

retroking1981 wrote:

monkey wrote:

Diluted Dante wrote:

Verecocha wrote:

Look at the best selling games, they're not on Nintendo consoles

Nintendo have made quite a few of them. Far more than any other company in fact. But if you're talking third party, Minecraft, Skyrim and FIFA are coming to Switch.

Big sellers on other systems doesn't mean they'll be big sellers on Nintendo systems.

Thing is we keep saying they need 3rd party support then turn our nose up when its there.

Damned if you do damned if you don't.

It's not that dude, it's the games themselves. Skyrim, a What 5/6 year old game? Everyone that wanted to play it very probably already has, numerous times. Then maybe again in its 'best' form on XB1/PS4, why would they buy again for £30-£50 on Switch? To play portable? Fifa will probably be some crap form the masses won't be interested in but hopefully not. Minecraft is huge but again, most people will have it in better forms, that they'll of spent time and money on, why again? Maybe because it's portable? But how many would be interested in that and if they are are they £300 and up interested? Mass Effecf Andromeda comes out same time as Switch, if they'd had that, at a better price point, with Zelda and a pack in 1-2 Switch all of a sudden there would be much more significant interest.

Tempy wrote:

Dark Soldier wrote:

It'll follow the way of the Wii and Wii U. Launches, hype overload, millions sold, joy. Six months to a year down the line it'll be discarded gathering dust by many leaving the hardcore to buy a new game every three months. Same as it ever was.

Given I have a billion games elsewhere this is never an issue for me, I wish consoles could survive as niche purchases as opposed to full fat sinkers or swimmers.

I think Nintendo can do that niche stuff if they want. But they're not gearing this up as a niche proposition imo.

@monkey @Verecocha I get your points about FIFA and Skyrim not being the right games.

For me this isn't a Switch problem or even a Wii gen one.

Nintendo's downfall in this respect was the Gamecube. That was the last time they released a like for like console.

It got tons of support, problem is none of us brought it.

FIFA used to go toe to toe in sales with Sega and Sony HW in the 90s, all of a sudden we stopped buying it. Why was that?

GCN was capable enough, it got RE4 exclusive initially, no one gave a fuck. Hitman on Nintendo, Tony Hawks, Soul Calibur II, Star Wars, Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia, Lord of the Rings, FIFA, Madden, its a huge list. Games almost unimaginable on Nintendo HW now.

All their modern problems are due to the Gamecube's failure.

Gamecube WAS the Nintendo console we all cry for now, but WE didn't buy it. I know DVD and GTA are huge factors but it boils down to this...

we created the modern Nintendo, not Nintendo.

Verecocha wrote:

I'm talking about recently, not historically.

Minecraft Xbox Edition was the 18th best selling physical game of 2016 in the UK, and Playstation 34th. Skyrim Special Edition was 12th. Sales aren't historical, they're still ongoing. Number one was, FIFA, which will be available on Switch.

The rest of the top 5, COD, Battlefield, The Division and GTA might not come. Then again, the Wii got 5 Call of Duty games.

Looking further down the list, excluding exclusives, Lego Whatever will be there, WWE will likely be there (there is already an NBA 2K game, so 2K are in, and that's a numbered game), Minecraft Story Mode was on Wii U, so if there is another, chancesn are it will also be on Switch. F1 will probably be there, Steep is confirmed as is Just Dance and Skylanders.

No pro evo and no GTA unfortunately which were the games I was playing back then.

Sony 'lost' last gen and went hard this time round, trying to get as many games as possible, rectifying most of the PS3 faults. Nintendo went full casual, taking them further away from what I wanted. Hard to say that was the wrong choice for them but it's why I've not been a customer of theirs for a while (3DS aside).

retroking1981 wrote:

@monkey @Verecocha I get your points about FIFA and Skyrim not being the right games.

For me this isn't a Switch problem or even a Wii gen one.

Nintendo's downfall in this respect was the Gamecube. That was the last time they released a like for like console.

It got tons of support, problem is none of us brought it.

FIFA used to go toe to toe in sales with Sega and Sony HW in the 90s, all of a sudden we stopped buying it. Why was that?

GCN was capable enough, it got RE4 exclusive initially, no one gave a fuck. Hitman on Nintendo, Tony Hawks, Soul Calibur II, Star Wars, Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia, Lord of the Rings, FIFA, Madden, its a huge list. Games almost unimaginable on Nintendo HW now.

All their modern problems are due to the Gamecube's failure.

Gamecube WAS the Nintendo console we all cry for now, but WE didn't buy it. I know DVD and GTA are huge factors but it boils down to this...

we created the modern Nintendo, not Nintendo.

Completely agree with you Retro, completely. I bought a cube at launch with 3 or 4 games and loved it, but I preferred my Xbox, got a Wii and thought it was awful, didn't buy a WiiU as it just didn't have anything I was interested in at the time and that hasn't really changed. And that's a path many other have taken with Nintendo.

The Switch should have either had enough power to make its price point understandable when for £80 less you can get a PS4 with Uncharted 4 or an Xbox One S with Forza Horizon for £50 less, or been cheap enough to have everybody prepared to buy one as a Nintendo and fun console. At £200 with Zelda on top of that myself, Haak, Chalice, Sparky and I think a few others in this thread would of been in day one, as well as god knows how many others I've read the same from on Gaf, Eurogamer etc etc.

Right now the Switch is not worth it for the mass market, so Nintendo will be starting on the back foot and trying to garner support from behind the curve again.