Destiny Is Problematic - Let's Make It Better - The Bear and Badger

regmcfly

Destiny is a game, loved and played by many on the forum. It's a good game, for sure, but the wildly swinging opinions on it suggest that it's not universally considered a great game yet.

This thread is a result of a vocal minority being unable to discuss the game critically on the other thread. This thread is not for shit stirring on destiny, but for discussing the areas where the game doesn't quite get it right, and more interestingly (hopefully) ways that Bungie can fix it as part of their on going patching and updating.
Obviously the most knowledgable people are those who play it weekly, daily - you guys are best placed to talk about this stuff, so I hope you do.
The real game begins when you can discuss it.

Here's my couple of pieces - one of which got shot down in the other thread, but I've thought of a couple of solutions.

1) the story - like it or not, this is a game that promised a huge story, and Bungie have a track record in massive narratives - hell, they were ballsy enough to end Halo 2 on a cliffhanger.
It's not there in Destiny - there's clearly been some cut between the creators and the publishers, perhaps in order to value-add to the app. The Grimoire cards are part of the game, for sure, but to tuck them out of the game, in places where perhaps some people will never find them is a mis-step. So I thought of a couple of solutions -
1) record a line of dialogue for each one picked up to add in, v/o style. Eg "oh, you just picked up a shard. Those are from..."
Problem with this, however, is that your v/o for that would be Dinklage, and I can imagine he's not cheap or easy to get hold of.
2) Go the Mass Effect route - while not preferable, adding in a codex style menu would get the ball rolling in the right direction.

The other problem was one I heard on a podcast and raised with Elm. I probably need actual Destiny experts to help here, and apologies if I get some of this wrong.
The current currency item people are playing for is strange coins (I believe) but people are starting to cap out on the gear you can get with this. Assuming House of Wolves is in May, what can Destiny do to keep people tiding over to there - three months is a long time?

Also, Elm mentioned that he wouldn't mind a microtransaction system in the game - would that help/hinder it?

Hopefully that's some conversation starters.

Suggestions:

[ol] 1) Include a line of dialogue with Grimoire Card pickups – the Grimoire is still there, but you get a taste of the lore with a line. [/ol][ol]2) Make the Grimoire Cards accessible in loading menus, not just through the Destiny App. [/ol][ol]3) Menu summaries of quests – what are you doing – why? Again, could be in loading screens. [/ol][ol] 4) Currency for pro-tier armour seems to be locked behind Raids. Can it be part of drops in Crucible? [/ol][ol] 5) Re-instate the player gambling systems that were mooted pre-launch. [/ol][ol]6) The Tower needs to be a better social hub – ways of interacting with randoms, perhaps places to recruit for Raids? [/ol][ol]7) Item trading. Nuff said. [/ol][ol]

Random encounters across the 4 planets. Not just spawn points. [/ol][ol] 9) Consolidate the currencies [/ol][ol] 10) PvP arenas as part of the main game (perhaps with observation posts for anyone else) which are structured as per the random events. [/ol][ol]11) Sparrow Racing! [/ol][ol]12) More defined characterisation – who are you? Who are your allies? [/ol][ol]13) More strictly defined classes – more encouragement for builds etc. [/ol][ol]14)A faction system [/ol][ol]15) Drop / Reduce the level 20-26 barrier. Nothing else to do, and pre-raid it's bleak. Make this more streamlined, or introduce a raid immediately after completing the main game. [/ol][ol]16) More variety in PvP mechanics [/ol][ol]17) More instructions as to how to progress post lvl20 / end of campaign [/ol][ol]18) Ditch the plot for Destiny 2. [/ol][ol]19) Unlock / check points for the planet as you progress (you have one spawn point initially, and you discover more) [/ol][ol]20) Facilitate the organisation of Raids – even with randoms [/ol]

acemuzzy

-2

lol

regmcfly

This is not the thread for you.

hylian_elf

1) I'm with you all the way on that. I've played a few missions, haven't got a clue what's going on or why, and as a result my motivation to carry on has been dampened. I don't know why I should carry on apart from some people saying it gets 'good' when you get to level 568 or something.

2) so why do people need to be tided over until the next DLC? Why can't people just play something else until then? Like with other games? Sounds stupid.

acemuzzy

but I have destiny in a box

MattyJ

Micro transactions are bad aids so fuck that.

The story could be better told for sure. Even just a summary of where you are so far in the menu would do, but there doesn't seem to be anything like that in there. I understand they're trying to spread it out over several games but still.

It's an MMO. People didn't complain they'd hit the level cap in WoW and blizzard need to do something before the next expansion did they? I've only just hit lvl 20 so haven't got into all that stuff yet but I haven't finished the story missions and gave plenty of content left. However I did only pick it up in December.

regmcfly

hylian_elf wrote:

1) I'm with you all the way on that. I've played a few missions, haven't got a clue what's going on or why, and as a result my motivation to carry on has been dampened. I don't know why I should carry on apart from some people saying it gets 'good' when you get to level 568 or something.

2) so why do people need to be tided over until the next DLC? Why can't people just play something else until then? Like with other games? Sounds stupid.

As to your number 2 - isn't this the thing with MMO type games, that they see player drop-offs at these types of time, and then the next pick-up is lower than the last DLC. So, I guess the answer is "they don't", but I think they need to, to keep the interest and fan base up. I mean, we're likely over 18 months away from Destiny 2.

hylian_elf

Ach, yeah you're right. It's me forgetting this is meant to be an MMO although it wasn't always put forward as such.

I'm on Moon now. The shooting is still better than any other FPS. Bungie know how.

regmcfly

But I guess there are also things like the PvP arena which should hopefully help retain people.

regmcfly

And yes. The shooting is fucking bang on.

digi

1.) any kind of a semblance of a story would be a massive start.

2.) glimmer is the proper currency, strange coins are used however at the weekly vendor who visits the tower on weekends.
He sells exotic gear (weapons and armour) and occasionally heavy ammo synthesis.
Problem is only 1 exotic weapon and 1 piece of exotic armour can be equiped at a time and when you have 1 of each for all your classes and he has no heavy ammo synthesis to sell then your just left with a stock pile of useless strange coins.

I can see why elm would consider micro transactions, time short and wanting to raid as there the best parts.
But theres plenty of ways to get what you want in destiny and micro transactions are worse than testicular ebola.

Chief

One of my biggest problems with the game is that obtaining currency for major upgrades is essentially locked away behind Raids. If you can't get a party together, then you're basically not levelling your gear to max.

regmcfly

Can you not get it through PvP?

stonechalice

Re the narrative problems; I think you can only tell so much story during the missions because the actual structure of the game limits the narrative somewhat. There are no set pieces during gameplay like Half Life 2 to whip the story along.

Not sure what else could be done other than more voice overs to flesh it out. When the gameplay just entails going from one point on a map to another and shooting lots of stuff, once you've done it once, the story is irrelevant. Not being able to skip dialogue and cut scenes in Destiny is a complete joke, let's be honest. Dinglebot has pounded every line of dialogue he has in this game into my brain forever more.

The Grimoire cards were a big mistep. Not having them in the game is madness. An easy solution would be to patch them into the game and have them browsable in the (many) loading screens. Instead we're just left staring blankly at a floating ship or tinkering with our build for a few seconds before play.

The upgrade/levelling up system is the remainder of what once could've been brilliant - player trading and gambling systems. They were in place, but cut, presumably so Activision could make it more grindy. Solution? Bring back player trading.

Sparrow races. What point is there to having upgradable transport when all you're doing is going from A to B? It's funny there is a whole section in the tower dedicated to your sparrow, yet there is nothing to be gained from spending anything on them at all. To all intents and purposes, each planet has one giant race track on it.

You can see the remnants of the game Bungie wanted Destiny to be everywhere you look.

Yossarian

Personally, I don't give a toss about the story, so I'll skip past that. What I'd like to see to improve Destiny is:

Better signposting for new players. Doesn't affect me any more as I'm not new, but still.

A simplification of the game's economy. At the moment there are five(!) different types of currency, all of which are earned in different ways and all of which can be spent on different things. This is ridiculously unnecessary.

A way to buy and sell materials. If I've got more Strange Coins than I can use, why can't I use them to buy something else I need?

The tower to be a better social hub. Add games, ways to interact with randoms, I don't know, something.

And finally, the planets themselves could be a bit more dynamic. At the moment, groups of enemies spawn in the same locations and hang around those locations waiting to be shot. Back in ODST they were more dynamic than that. Vehicles only spawn during specific events, why can't they turn up randomly and patrol rather than just hanging around in one location? Also, there's no real room for secrets and discovery. The gold chest thing was a nice idea, but none were that well hidden and none held anything that great. How about two or three gold chests on each planet that are actually difficult to reach but which offer you something worth having? Hidden bosses outside the story missions? There's more that could be done here.

Yossarian

Oh yes, item trading would be good. As well as the ability to upgrade/customise favourite weapons/armour rather than having to scrap and replace them all the time.

regmcfly

Yoss - I really like the idea of more random encounters - there's the emergent story that they're after. Cool idea.

Djornson

The story is unbelievably shit. The WORLD is awesome, the characters, the atmosphere. In fact, there is no story. They might as well just do a Dark Souls 2 and plonk you in a world with no fricking idea what's going on.

I absolutely love Destiny but i haven't played for at least 3 weeks probably more. I'd recommend a long break when you get sick of it. It takes a lot of dedication to enjoy properly.

Diluted Dante

There are too many currencys in Destiny. You have Glimmer, Strange Coins, Motes of Light, Vanguard Marks, Crucible Marks and Black Wax Idols. There are commendations needed now as well actually. The upgrade materials needed for gear are even worse.

You can only get the ascendant materials (what Chief is on about) by playing Crota's End, where they might drop as the materials, or you can dismantle the weapons and armour that drop in there to get them instead. There is no other way to get them.

stonechalice

I thought emergent stuff would be in there because Bungie, as well as Dark Souls like player invasions. PvP outside of the Crucible could've been fantastic.

Diluted Dante

stonechalice wrote:

I thought all that would be in there, as well as Dark Souls like player invasions. PvP outside of the Crucible could've been fantastic.

I would have found that awful. If they had that in, there would have to be an option to turn it off for me, or I would simply never have played it. I never play PvP servers on MMO's.

regmcfly

I suspect we will see PvP outside of encounters. In my time going from lvl 20 - 22 I was doing a whack of like ambush-Y type things: where something would drop from the sky and you had to protect it and be within a certain radius of it.

You could imagine them having those ready to roll for PvP - like a little "fight club" notification, and if you're standing in the middle when it kicks off, you're fair game. People could be on the periphery watching and cheering (and betting on the outcome?)

regmcfly

As an aside, the press-button to dance mechanic is the best communication mechanic going.

regmcfly

Right, making a decision that I'm going to fire up destiny in the next week and start a log of my journey from 22-32. I'll buy the season pass and get going with this.

There is an amazing game in here but it's just obfuscated beyond belief.

stonechalice

I also wonder whether players were initially supposed to meet at the Tower, get in their ships all together at the loading bays, then travel together to the planets, all seamlessly. But then they cut it because they knew old gen couldn't handle it.

There is also proof somewhere that all enemy drop ships in the game were destructable at one point, and then cut, again due to technical limitations. All that's left is the turrets to shoot on them now. I think the game was going to be much of a space war than the FPS we're left with.

Yossarian

Yeah, I agree with Billy when he said in the other thread that he didn't think player spaceships were originally only for cutscenes.

Diluted Dante

Apparently the original intention was for players joining up to arrive in game via ship. So it sounds like that could have been the case Chalice.

Reg, what console are you on?

regmcfly

I mean, rather than problems - solutions - do you think they'll drop the last gen support and perhaps add this back? Or is it destiny 2?

Or will destiny 2 drop on 360? What will Yoss do?

regmcfly

Dante - I'm on PS4, but as im looking for a friendly group to play with, and I know elm and wookie are hard at it on Bono, I'm swithering about getting it on that, and just starting again.

Diluted Dante

Destiny will remain supported on last Gen. Destiny 2, I presume will be next gen only. It probably depends on userbase numbers, but it's clear to me that last gen support held back features, and the obvious solution there is to just cut them off.

They have a way of easing the transition, in that if you stay within format you pick up where you left off. No idea why this isn't universal like. If it was, I'd have 4 copies of the game.

Diluted Dante

regmcfly wrote:

Dante - I'm on PS4, but as im looking for a friendly group to play with, and I know elm and wookie are hard at it on Bono, I'm swithering about getting it on that, and just starting again.

Revel is about your level I believe, and I'm alwayswilling to lend a hand.

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